Episode 152 – Zebras, pots, and spoonies oh my! What chronic pain sufferers wish you knew! Nicole Alldredge & Aisley Johnson co-authors of The Mindflight Journal

Ep152 Zebras, POTS and Spoonies, Oh My! What Chronic Pain Sufferers Wish You Knew! Nicole Alldredge and Aisley Johnson, Co-Authors of The Mindflight Journal

Is chronic pain your mentor, or your master? Nicole Alldredge and Aisley Johnson, co-authors of The Mindflight Journal, join Tony Overbay, LMFT on episode 152 of the Virtual Couch Podcast. The Mindflight Journal was created to help you not only track your health, medication, and symptoms, but also take care of your mind through gratitude, growth, and creativity. You can find them on Instagram @mindflightjournal on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/mindflightjournal/ or by going directly to http://mindflightjournal.com Use the code “virtualcouch” to receive a discount on your copy.

Nicole and Aisley layout their own journeys in researching, understanding, diagnosing and ultimately learning not only to live but to thrive with chronic pain and illness. They discuss how raising your “emotional baseline” can help you live a more fulfilling life, even while struggling with chronic pain. They also give tips on the best way you can empathize with, and support anyone who is dealing with a chronic illness or chronic pain.

Nicole and Aisley created the Mindflight Journal with the following mission in mind:

Our mission is to help people with chronic illness or paito take care of their mind and body through journaling. It is through our own journey with chronic illness that we have learned how important it is to track your own health and focus on what you can change through learning, thinking and writing.

Having chronic illness and pain is a difficult trial, but we know it can have a refining effect. We hope that this journal brings you peace, helps you grow and gives you a spark of excitement each time you open its pages to see what it has in store for you each day

The Mindflight Journal has a two-page spread for every day and will last 120 days. A free bookmark comes with each journal that allows you to easily track your medications.  Each journal is a cloth-covered, hardback book with a ribbon to mark your place.

For your health, each spread includes:

– a pain map

– health stats table

– medication table

– pain level scale

– symptoms/notes record


For your mind, each spread includes

– new quote

– unique, daily writing prompt

– daily challenge

– gratitude box

– to-do list

The Virtual Couch is sponsored by http://Betterhelp.com/virtualcouch Betterhelp.com is the world’s leading provider of online therapy. Their mission is to make professional counseling accessible, affordable, and convenient, so anyone who struggles with life’s challenges can get help, anytime, anywhere. Head to http://betterhelp.com/virtualcouch for 10% off your first month of services.

Below is the machine-generated audio transcription of the entire episode (so please understand there may be many errors, and difficult to read bits and pieces, but much of the content will be easy to understand) from http://audioburst.blubrry.com

 Zebras, pots and spoonies oh my! What chronic pain sufferers wish you knew


00:00:00 – 00:05:04


Coming up on today’s episode of the virtual couch zebras pots and spoons. Oh my what chronic pain sufferers wish you knew and before you go any further whether you are dealing with any type of chronic like pain or illness or not whether or not you know of someone who is dealing with chronic pain. I am asking you to do me a favor. Take the time to listen to this episode. My guests are mother and daughter team. Nicole uneasily early and they are both incredibly experienced and well versed in this topic and they’re funny and both have struggled with chronic pain and they’ve created a tool an incredible tool for chronic pain sufferers called the Mind Flight Journal Journal that is going to literally save lives by giving chronic pain sufferers this tool to validate their experiences as well as help them live plus we cover topics like empathy how to support a loving going through difficult times women’s issues in healthcare and so so much more so stick around that and more coming up on this episode of the virtual couch hey before we get started today more email feedback hi Tony. I’m a big fan but I’ll bet you won’t read this one. I liked better health dot com. I used your code better. Help dot com slash virtual couch to get the discount that you offered. I like my therapist. I found now. I like life. Keep on doing what you do. Sincerely well don’t read by name. I’m afraid I gave away too many details in my email so there you go person who submitted admitted the email. I did read. It and I like your email. It’s short it’s simple but it says it all if you are interested in professional help and you have your reasons not to reach out to somebody local to you or if you prefer not to go into therapist. Aarp’s office or you feel like the therapists in your area. Maybe don’t have the expertise in your particular issue whether being Zaidi depression chronic pain illness <hes> betrayal trauma. OCD CD you name it then please check out better health dot com slash virtual couch for ten percent off your first month’s service you can start communicating with someone in less than twenty four hours no waiting and uncomfortable waiting rooms although I will admit my waiting room pretty comfy but it’s more affordable than traditional counseling and one thing that I need to talk more about as the financial aid is available so go check out what over five hundred thousand some people have already done before you sign up now going to better help dot com. That’s better E. H. E. L. P. dot com slash virtual couch and get the help that you need or you didn’t even know that you needed today. What are you waiting for. There’s a broad range of expertise and better help DOT coms counselor network which may not be available local. The service is available for clients worldwide. You can log into your account anytime and send a message as your counselor and you’ll get timely thoughtful responses plus you get a weekly video or phone sessions so you won’t ever have to sit in uncomfortable waiting rooms as with traditional therapy again. Go check out better help DOT DOT com. That’s better H. E. L. Dot com slash virtual couch to get ten percent off your first month’s service go. What are you waiting for. Go Try it today. Better help dot com slash virtual couch wjr episode one hundred fifty the two of the virtual couch. I’m your host. Tonio Rene licensed marriage and family. They’re certified lab coach writers husband other four ultra marathon runner and creator of the path back and online pornography recovery program that is helping people like you reclaimed their lives from armful of extra pornography. If you or anybody else you been struggling overcome pornography once said for all they can be done any healthy. Shame Shame Street based. There’s a lot of other things that I say at this point right now. I’m kind of going off the cuff. I’m trying to record this the video as well because my guest today on one hundred and fifty two are worth watching the video received the very loving interaction between mother daughter the what we’re talking about today just kind of really comes through with their passion but the swagger thrown off on talking about the path back but just had to pat back recovery dot com do me in there you can find a short you can download a short <unk> describes five come states that people make when trying to overcome he will turn to pornography as a coping mechanism pat back recovery dot com do favor. It’s helped hundreds and hundreds of people but pornography behind them once and for all and cleese go check out the virtual couch page on instagram. There’s also virtual couch page on facebook and Tonio <unk> licensed marriage and family therapist page on facebook as well and if you get a chance stop by TONIO DOT COM and sign up there to find out more about a lot of exciting things that are coming up so with that said with the concept of what is coming up next. Let’s let’s get to the show. That was my dramatic odds. They’re recording platform. That is where now we will move into a little bit more of the there’s the opener but then we’re also going to talk about what the today show is like before. I get to my interview with their former neighbors as my favorite people in the World Nicole Aldridge and as as Louis Johnson who I want to call as the Aldridge as well because I’ve known her since she was just a child literally two three four years old something like that but <hes> Nicole in as easily you’re coming on today to talk about something amazing and I have a visual eight year.



00:05:04 – 00:10:28


It is a book that they have completed is called the Mind Flight Journal and you can see in the corner of the slow in Boston graphic of the bird taking flight the Mind Flight Journal but today’s episode I really would I would love us kind of hang with me for a second James Episode is is it’s pretty incredible and not just because these are former neighbors and they save Mary. Nice things about <hes> some some podcast episodes. There’s some concepts that help them in the creation of the mind flight journal but even if you don’t struggle with chronic pain even if you don’t know anyone that does but I do know people who struggle with chronic pain but even that is not something that you are dealing with or if you don’t know someone that <hes> is is dealing with chronic pain. I would just encourage you to just trust me on this one. I listened to the entire episode. Nicole and easily talk about a lot of different in concepts of even the way that when you go into a doctor’s office in how you feel if you are heard and and just talking about some big concepts big picture ideas in general about empathy and about how empathy could there there could be some trading or perhaps some we all use a little bit of training on empathy and how the two towers listen and how to be there for other people whether it’s chronic pain or whether it’s not chronic pain but a more how to just have a better shared experience and to be able to be there or someone and how even provide service for someone so we talk about some of those concepts and Nicole also about halfway through the podcast gets some pretty the big concepts of just just some big topics that I think <hes> could almost be considered some hot button items and some of those things will be around the idea of women and the way that they are perceived and healthcare and she has some data so that kind of backs that up so there’s a lot of topics here but it you know of anyone is struggling with chronic pain. If you have chronic aid in you you’re going to get so much from this and also from their mind. Flight Journal and my wife pointed out she was in studio for a little bit which was so grateful for but she even pointed out that we start right out and there’s some pretty big medical terms and I’m not turned to talk to other. There’s concerts diagnoses or some things that that I couldn’t remember if I had to right now. That’s how you of some of the things that Nicole uneasily brought up early on and so don’t let that scare you because the concepts around the the chronic pain concept empathy and understanding are there from the start so I really feel like this service owed that you’ll get a lot from and more importantly. I really really do feel like if you know anyone that is dealing with chronic pain. This is one of those episodes that I think that you will be able to origin someone and it’s honest. It’s beer going to feel validated in the episode enduring from coal easily and you are going to to <unk>. They’re gonNA appreciate you sending them this episode because of the saying wow. I kind of get it now. I understand more about what you’re going through and I think you’ll like this episode so with that said I just I’m so excited to get you to this episode. It’s a little bit longer and we’ve talked about it. We talked about trying to break it up into two parts. The Nicole and I as Lee were all podcast listeners and I just feel like there are times where there is a podcast topic that I really enjoy or into to then. I I’m willing to listen. I don’t care how long it is so I really think you’re going to enjoy this so with that said let’s get to my former neighbors of eighteen in years and the authors of the Mind Flight Journal. Nicole Aldridge and easily Johnson and let’s get to that episode right now okay so he told me that again whether you have right there okay we have this awesome songwriter <unk> similar antics polls and and we were just going to see who was more nervous by other little contests tear who who was more nervous yeah. Jayme thank over our normal. What are the beats per minute. Why didn’t look on my apple. Watch where my beats per minute compared beats per minute. You’re an ultra around all right now. What were your beats per minute. I’m curious actually pretty low. Even for non rising around Etienne’s yards seventy-eight eight going right now are nervous to talk. You know this no this is I in. My wife doesn’t want want me to point out that she’s in the office in the studio. He’s fifty five. She is always ought not surprised at all but okay. My guests are today. It is funny as they almost wanted to as aldridge but we got Nicole Aldridge mighty that Ashley Johnson I do that all the time right but their mother and daughter and this is one of those times where I would highly recommend go watch this video on the virtual couch youtube channel because they are air just fun people in lots of smiles right now in front of me and these are people were my neighbors for how long were you, my neighbors, neighbors eighteen years so before as Louis Yeah Oh our kids throughout our kids said the Overbay were our second mom and dad so nice.



00:10:28 – 00:15:01


I know that our kids would say the same spent many times but so we are here not to talk about old times. Although I could do that for hours to talk about and I will hold this up again for the camera. Kolon easily have a book it is called but I’m coming up the really cool part in the corner. It’s it’s a mind flight journal. I mean where do we. Jin actually welcome to the podcast. Welcome Virtual County. Hey we’re happy actually really excited. Are you K- by Imposter Syndrome so we would talk all the time and I remember when I was going back to Grad school when I was bouncing off the unit colon and I would have my imposter syndrome is know as the Colin. I think that’s crazy that in my software career in Europe is you did talk about just things I would learn in class. You know we would and and all that stuff up. You’re always so enthusiastic. Can I use to think okay she just doing that because she’s a nice neighbor artist. You love it and in fact though yes I. I have a couple of questions for you but one of them is a reveal. I told you I had to reveal. I know I’m frightened of the reveal whatever the reveal ism envy no but when we were working on our book we realize what we’re trying to do is we’re not trying to sell above. We’re trying to sell like change and we’ll go into us. What it really came down to is raising your emotional baseline look. I’m not joking so I remember the day. You told me about emotional bayside you you were in your garage. I was walking pass and you explain this concept to me a long time ago. I mean in my mind. I’m assuming you’re the offer curve. Mosul baseline is that true. Yeah totally made it out. I really did again very research base. Yes I am the founder <music> notional baseline theory now being taught at all universities but I realized that that’s what our that’s what our book was doing. We’re re emotional. National Baseline for other people like the League tears right now because you know it’s funny. I honestly remember that time because I really I do because I felt like that was one of those where I just talked to. Kohl’s ear off about something that I just made up. I feel very strongly I was she’s so nice. She acts very interested in these things of their beans psychology but did she just walk away going. Oh Kay are not getting ahead of yourself channel now well. I think you’re a productive captive. Every person that you need to look a little piece of Tony Ovebay all that so nice all right that is a very I enjoy that reveal but I still Korea uncomfortable no but only that I think Mackey backed you up in her latest podcast when she was talking about it. I just thought everything she just described was about raising her baseline Julie Mice Yeah and she kind of she’s kind of like she didn’t think she’s doing like a journal but she really is because every day you know. She talked about how she takes. Pictures exactly that is a journal that is her going out in the world and looking for something good and finding it every day I appreciate that I do. I love the feedback about the episode where she’s on on the kind of jump in about what brought you guys here and I mean because you work together to create the Journal was the Journal who’s the journal four. What’s it about so I was in college fishy at my biology degree. I wouldn’t be hard to know you so well because I want to make the joke because you’re about fifteen at the time rate will be quite okay. Well good finishing my biology degree and I had I was getting eating emphasis in neuroscience law seeking of neurology classes and for my senior projects. I decided to do on her general neuralgia which is what she has one of the things I did was. I followed the facebook. Group will <unk> support group just so I could get a better perspective on it and in my eyes were kind of open to that chronic pain chronic illness community at the same time I was also learning about growth mindset in how powerful Brain Lena’s with neuropathy that step in my class and so my mom night got to talk on the phone about what was something we could do to help these people because there’s not a lot out there.



00:15:01 – 00:20:05


The idea came rather quickly that we could make a journal that can help them track their health so that they can notice patterns in their illness in pain in also something that had an aspect of helping them helping their mind kind of escape and finding peace and comfort through writing prompts in rewiring your brain just to raise that motion baseline so then when you when you started hearing putting putting those pieces together was this something you go right to your mom and and say all right. Tell me more figure this out or or what was that like yeah. I mean we got to work. We’re going really fast long time. I I graduated in December nine right when I moved to Arkansas might help how not working right away so who’s I mean. was there a did you both can come to this together or Nicole. You’ve been thinking about doing something like this for a long time on slate in in the way we work together. We don’t keep track of who does what you know. It’s both been like there’s days where she does a lot more than I do or I do. A lot got more and we don’t even care. We just have this goal of like. Let’s get this out there. Let’s get this into the community and try to help people who have chronic pain because I I hi. I’m going to be a terrible entrepreneur because I was saying. I’d probably give these all await campaign because I do. I believe in it. There’s been studies coming out and all that talk about how so how dangerous some of the drugs are and I’ve had to take some of those drugs and and that’s the only alternative for some people but there aren’t seeing you can do with your brain. It will raise your emotional baseline. You can be a little bit happier when before we even get to that too. I WanNa hear so. Let’s mentioned that in. What was the condition that you were talking about that. You knew that your mom demand that you strategy moving around you okay so I was gonNA coal. You’ve got a story right a chronic. I’ll try to keep it danced Wednesday. I don’t WanNa bore anybody all day. I WanNa hear this well. I had were Kinda now discovering new patterns in our family. There’s probably something genetic that we have <hes>. We’ve already been one of our kids already been diagnosed in it as a hereditary condition. We talk about that later but it started off probably with. I hurt myself at work. I had a really serious back injury and because it happened work and what’s workers competent me a long time to get this situation result but I did end up <unk> having a a disc replacement fusion and it was very surgery it took me about a year to recover from that and it was very painful during a hard again did not as your neighbor. I remember literally you walk down the street recovered from that and you know here’s. The I knew you ran what half marathon with my wife at one point in one of their claim to fame I was when the obeys running partner. I’ve never been so proud of okay I don’t want but that was that was is you guys trained for a half marathon. Drain on the roads and I still remember this day. Nobody knew that it was incredibly hard trail half-marathon and finished across the sands of the beach after your legs were thrashed and we’ve got home videos wise it was yeah but so I mean to that point right you were going from something where you run an incredibly hard half marathon to now. I would see you kind of hobbled down the street. All you have locker. There are many the time has great yeah because my foot ended up getting paralyzed afoot dropper got foot and once you get to that point then they can’t really deny surgery reading more because the chances of you having damaged it to be pretty strong so then I had had the surgery some started with that analysis probably eight years so before to media that surgery I had been in a law pain kneeling at my desk and I was I was hurting and this time I work fulltime. Five teenage daughters czar butts probably about a year after that I just I’ve been so good like K. and conquer the world and I still remember where I was. I was in my kitchen two doors down from you guys at. I felt like this shock in my ear. You’re like an electric shock and tapping and I thought it’s just kind of weird. Annual kept happening and then a couple of weeks later. I got a rash all over my jaw aw and I just figured August browder. I don’t know but it was kind of like infected. It was weird but I just let go anna than a huckle weeks after that. I went into the doctor in thinking I have to explain to the doctor that I have a bug in my ear and this is going to be so embarrassing opinion. I like how a bug in my ear ’cause. I still this vibrating pretty sure but he looks and he’s like no no ooh where we entered doctors in.



00:20:05 – 00:25:18


I mean what did you like. He was listening you or did he. Did you play he’s thinking I was kind of pretty happy to find out again ear still trying to progress okay but I mean there’s been some good in some work since then but <hes> so a couple of weeks later I I noticed this. I face tingling. I’m feeling pins and needles and I’m just positive my ears inside because it hurts so bad so go back in I get I haven’t heard infection and he looks at him and go back home weeks. Later I am at this point. I can’t get off the couch for some reason like it hurts so bad ads going down my neck and it my jaw and I’m having a hard time standing up so this down on the couch for like a month. NFL <unk>. I felt like I was GONNA pass out selects Kinda getting hard and I’ve been going back in and they still can’t really find anything that’s wrong and <hes> one of the Times I went in. They said we’ll get anything but let’s talk about your heart rate and my resting heart that point was like one fifty five. Nelson and months usually like in the fifties. I am so tired you know kind of made me so good and I was having weird. Things happened like I would wake up at night and I just felt like like you know that feeling we almost correct and the adrenaline surges through your body. I would wake up without adrenaline in my this. This is going on and on and finally on on central cardiologists and since Ian Sentinel Rollin gist all okay yeah this is months so I started to Google things exists point and I had found something called trigeminal Neuralgia the summit pretty close but not as close as something called Genetic Hewlett neuralgia and they’re pretty much the same thing affecting different cranial nerves saw under the base of your brain and the nurse go forward like into your face or down to your your body depending on which nervous and <unk> neurologist symptoms and it was something that was so rare <hes> a sounded right on and I was really lucky because when I went back to my family physician he said you know I think it’s an gets Tila ru which is just kind of the old fashioned name for trigeminal Neuralgia and and so he sent me to the neurologist who would have been a specialist in sent basically <unk> said Yeah Yeah. I think you have here. You can take this this this this this and I kinda like will. I don’t know if I don’t know what’s best for me. I started getting really discouraged because is a cardiologists. I felt like I really what I wanted to know what was going on. I didn’t want to just have drugs thrown at me. Our channel go on with my body and go to the specialists. Your Co pays quite a bit higher and I thought I’m paying. You know two hundred fifty dollars for this guy. Give me two minutes of it’s time and you know finally the heart doctor said it he spent like two minutes with me at. I had this whole list of questions and none of were answered and he walked out of the road and I just started lose it like I just wanted to know what the heck is going on with my body and he hadn’t told me anything and I just kind a gallon myself together and I’m like so I walk out holiness <unk>. Do I have on an auction. He’s like well yeah. Okay we will tell and what does that omic dysfunction of another name as pots pasta or the static Cardia Syndrome and you get it for different reasons that basically when a stand up the blood isn’t going to my head so my heart keeps trying to pump it on super super fast and this is why I’m getting retired and that’s why my my heart was always up so he was pretty sure that was going to go away when it never did and but this this time I joined a couple of face group facebook groups for trigeminal Neuralgia Genetic Hewlett neurology and it was extremely comforting to needed fine of the people who had this trigeminal Neuralgia not dramatic but it is nicknamed the suicide disease and if you get any any lists that goes floating around there it says talk stop. You know most people disease. This is on it and I feel I feel like I have imposter syndrome saying that on this is if people who had a way way way worse than me I mean it is it can just destroy their lives and mine is <hes> it’s definitely been hard and it’s definitely been painful not near as bad as as some of the others can wouldn’t kind of step back to long is this process of and you are trying to figure things out the at a lot of times like you were being dismissed along the way you got a what is that like because I feel like I know that people commit to me even Google bipolar.



00:25:18 – 00:30:01


I think I might be by or and did you kind of feel. There was resistance from whether it was doctors or people friends our process like <hes>. It was extremely frustrating. There’s there’s a mean in the world and we can talk about this. Is I really. I didn’t know this term I I. I’m here in this or in the chronic pain world. There’s there’s a student theory. I don’t know the woman there is a specific woman who came up with this but she was trying to explain what having a chronic illnesses like to somebody and she’s sitting across dinner and she holds it assuming says okay. This is a unit of energy and most people have an unlimited number of spoons in their life but for someone who has crime hey they might have five or ten spoons an everyday. They have to make a decision like okay. I’M GONNA I use a student. If I take a shower. I’m going to use a spoon. If I cook dinner and then you run out of spoons and so if you have chronic pain and you’re running out of energy you are asleep me so one of my favorite spooning means. Is You know the doctor says don’t confuse your Google search with my you know eight years of medical training and then the chronic pain patients says don’t confuse your one hour lecture in Medical School on my twenty years of having this okay okay and I do feel like I gotta be honest. I mean as a therapist. I feel like there was a shift at one point where if somebody’s bringing me. I think I may have this diagnosis. I I had to realize that I have empathy for that because yeah they’re the ones who the reason they’ve gone in. Google that is because of all the emotional issues or the the pain or the suffering or the they’d had and those aren’t being met so why would I not want to spend that time and say okay. I’ll read the article that you want me to read or. I’ll hear the diagnostic. I want to because because somebody somebody hear somebody asks the here you so that’s why when you were saying you go in there and you’ve got the one or two minutes the doctor again. They’re just saying I’m I’m the professional. I know what I’m talking about and I know that must be one of the articles I really. It wasn’t say one of the articles that I referred to often now in working with people with personality disorders is one that someone had sent me and they said hey check this out and they when they sent Senate to me. They even told me that previous services said Hey. I’m not GonNa read the things you send me. You need to read the things I sent. You and I thought wow that is tonio is so humble or you’re very kind okay. I mean to do that but the eight and I did have ideas like my doctor. Now I’ll bring them articles and he doesn’t treat like an idiot and I saw her. She noticed the what is it. One of these things probably to say though as if you don’t feel a connection with your doctor when I’m saying somebody’s feel connection with their that ease go find it therapists that in connection with is that the same with doctors and product names. He’s like that similar. I absolutely deal and <unk>. Tell you that because I don’t know you know some conditions this one could be one of them and there’s many more it takes years to be diagnosed with trae general morale. Just I remember I get online urologist this mixed up by I have a few of them. I think it takes I think it took like four years for people by diagnosis and they’d seen seven docks works while the <unk> somebody who will work with you in someone who knows about it because <hes> well easily that that Zebra Omya oh yeah so one of the medical conditions that <unk> chronic illness <unk> Kunis have I guess you could say it’s alleged in the house and the one that my sister has been diagnosed and call. LS Danielson it’s a connective tissue disorder and they have to kind of things about it in one is if you can’t connect issues they connected dishes and so these people have like a lot of unrelated unrelated issues and they’re going into the doctor and a lot of doctors if you year <unk> assume it’s horses not zebras because usually when someone comes in they wanted it’s better to assume that they have almond thing than the rare thing and so the mascot or the Ehlers Dan Lewis illness is actually zebra up because in that case. It’s not the Zebra little. There’s there’s no that are high school.



00:30:01 – 00:35:24


Mascot in the area is the fighting Zebra so how ironic right yeah. I’m very right but I love that analogy because it’s it’s so funny that even I am guilty at times of you know that whole concept of acronyms reserved you know that one where the most obvious thing is the thing that’s it is sometimes all things <hes> in I cast in the the research stuff. Sometimes it all comes together so if you’re bleeding all the time in the most obvious thing is the thing there’s your confirmation bias so then if you’re you know and so that’s the confirmation bias. I’m GonNa look for all the things that support the most obviously is the and I’m not gonNA be out to look at the you know the the minority whatever that diagnoses it takes a long if that was diagnosed as and I heard it seriously my my face group my facebook groups or help me get diagnosis because I could see myself in their comments and their symptoms and in fact when I had been on there I noticed that one neurosurgeon urgent kept coming up and he was at UC Irvine and I found like a forty five dollar jet blue plane and I just open appointment went down after being told I was just you know <hes> maybe drink water or whatever by doctors he actually looked at Myemma ride. Other doctors said No. You’re fine now. You have four cranial nerve compressions on you. Have you know I had these. He confirmed it and you know that that moment kind of changed my life because I realized I could trust myself I could trust my instincts and out and that I I figure things out and and I was something it kind of empowered them. So is there also frustration though in the so you’re empowered but you still have the pain right or you’re empowered and you’ve chased to figure this out or herder. Now I feel heard. was there a moment where you very briefly okay. I’ve got this figured out or or was it like even though I’ve got this figured out now. What are what’s next. You know an interesting thing that I’ve seen with other chronic. Pain patients is that when when they do get a diagnosis they’re usually not freaked out. They’ve already accepted how their life is in the payment. They’re going through their <unk> lead to have someone believe on and to have indeed notes okay so you mentioned. Is it a was it one of your sisters easily. There was diagnosed with a chronic pain issue as well. Okay okay okay. I don’t tell me about that so yeah so that’s a yes all our that is the one in mackey eighty two time virtual cash podcast grew right back playing horseys watching the movie spirit more horses. I have so many homes sitting it near on the couch so cute with over Nikitas Yeah. Hey so that this is huge right. Tell me about this this one yes so on. Ika had her own slew of health problems and she had had a lot of headaches in <hes> things that were making her migraines that were actually making her loser speech which was really concerning and she had other symptoms like pox that that my mom had talked about where you get up in. Your heart rate goes up so she would you know fall to the ground because she was falling down a law so she retains a day yeah so she had all that going on and she finally got an. MRI that show that she had a <unk> automation which is basically league when you’re the cerebellar in the back of your head is kind of sinking anterior spine more than it should be causes <unk> the problems at so yeah and then she also had a a mass temporal lobe so she had the surgery to get her car fixed but she’s still facing some symptoms of chronic illness and so trump through is no joke literal brain surgery right. Yes huge argument yeah yeah so exposure to two conic pain or olden so that’s kind of what helped us start our now now. It’s kind of an after we had started making the Charles <unk>. Yell have something to give her to deal with some of her pain. Tell you a funny story on Aqsa will have to get a Kershaw this but if not I would edit out. I was so on Iran. Don’t know if you guys knew this but when she was in school at first in college she had a job <hes> where she was acting out arts for mental illness so I was honoured when she’d reached out three into said hey you know I have to play a part of a betrayed woman you know and not like in the playoffs so people think psychiatrist at all tall so I said Oh my gosh this is Raymond.



00:35:24 – 00:40:00


We’ll house. I happen to do a ton of this. The trauma and then we’re not your diction yeah and she was going to be the woman who her husband she had found out that her husband had had an addiction in again it was to help people whether it was. Airbus like like August this about to our talk one one weekend where she had difficult questions and I’m telling her all these areas in what I I see in the in the room and she was she asked the best questions. It was like man. She’s the greatest fake yeah right right yeah. That was like this is. This is really this is satisfying for me as well anytime you have another coach each coach exactly other during cut so so now so on Ika in so easy so you said that on a good end for still kind of racism hurdles ahead <hes> but but man if she wouldn’t have got diagnosis or if it would have just been all she’s she’s clumsy uh-huh easy if no one would listen if no woman which we tell her her whole life and now we all felt kind of stupid about it. I like her. I’m having going we was here and she followed stairs all the time and we would just say on motor skills that we would Caesar and now like disability this time they can be kinda conflict because it’s the area of your brain. Kinda helps subordination okay so easily. Do I mean you right now. You are you talking about connective tissue disorder that I mean. Is that something that tell me why you know more about that easily it does seem to run in families quite a bit and so once ought. Dr Her diagnosis of that and a lot of Hurson <unk>. They’re like they’re all connected. That seems like a lot of things in the chronic illness. Community are seem to be all connect yeah. Sometimes we all have the same symptoms so it’s kind of interesting but I had just had a just a few symptoms. I haven’t had to suffer with a lot of pain but connective tissues. Ultra Oughta have different symptoms in it’s it’s because the Collagen is messed up in so you have we connective tissue and so you have joint pain dislocations and stuff like that and so I had a little bit of that and I really don’t have defaced as long as I’ve said to be careful because you know having some of that while you’re in your twenties is just to kind of take care of it now before okay yeah. It means being aware that so right now you’re just kind of center. I there’s some interesting tests for like we we visited the funeral surgeon one of the first things he had on a could do as he tested hypermobility and I was like can you do this. Can you do this like one of them is like Australia but can you touch your thumb to your risk. You know always long bane. He’s not even close. How can you be in your fingers back and so we all slow really a highly on this and then we’re like. Oh you know. We didn’t realize that people can use things like this. You know a lot of people could be hyper mobile and not have any symptoms but uh-huh it appears to be folly little something going on so as the hard part is she’s referred to a geneticist because we got figured out and we finally just got confirmation information that they they have the referral from the neurosurgeon. Yes they WANNA see her. Do tests in their nearest appointment will be in two thousand twenty the newly yeah wow okay. I guess now start early. If your answer so you can say all right so not too young kids or teenagers hearing the podcast urologist becoming neurosurgeon there. The demand is insane. Yeah I actually eighthly is doing with her life because the reason that on Aqsa was diagnosed is she had been to probably five or six. Different doctors. Get checkups random things throughout her life and she just told a your distress. You know you’re just having headaches. Stress rests in here this girl she’s a runner with weights meditates. She does your sheets healthy just doing everything right and she’s still being told a young.



00:40:00 – 00:45:07


You’re just stress it just medical professional a nurse practitioner who just said. I’m for good about this. has anyone done an. Mri I know and the younger I and they found it right away and there were how it changed the way Phil about what you WanNa do now yes so. I already finished my degree. I decided to start taking the prerequisites that had taken yet for school so in a couple of classes right now stuck in a by later this year but I just it made me want to be able to be the kind of medical professional that will really listen to people because I realized how that is really believe people and I know that I knew that you were Oh. You are incredibly intelligent in epic and ninety one but now I just got a little more make more sense of yet. You’re GonNa be an incredible what you’ve already experienced. That is nice a lot of times the on the I. I was GONNA kind of throwing a blanket over the entire medical community but I get why and I I I can understand why it can be hard if people do feel like they’re coming in because I felt this is a therapist will come in and they’re telling you. I Google a lot of things in years all these things that I might be. I can understand that but I do feel if you really have empathy for that person coming in the office coming in the room. They aren’t just doing that because is a they just thought. I think I’ll schedule an appointment. Pay a lot of money and then just go tell someone a bunch of things that Google Pixel reason why they’re just back yeah exactly and I think sometimes happens all the time and I think as a medical is a healthcare professional. I do feel like you assume okay. They’re coming to me for my knowledge. They’re coming to me for my wisdom. I really feel like it. We need to shift that a little bit in the healthcare community coming to me I to be hurt and then once I hear them. Now I can kind of say all right. Here’s what here’s the knowledge I have. Let’s see if we can get alert the Messier and if not then let’s let’s Kinda. Keep them all role in get you to somebody they can hear your. You understand you better okay so in all your kind so. I am curious. We talked a little bit before you to. There’s a shifting directions little bit. Tell me there is a difference in chronic pain between men and women like what is that defense. Okay tell me exactly I this is one of those things where I did a podcast awhile back on a thing called. HP highly sensitive person sensory processing since that would that one just opened my eyes to and I feel like a lot of those things where all goes back to the why why is it my job to tell someone that to get over something or something’s not such a big deal or that sort of thing and so. I feel that changed even Mike Couples therapy approach because even though I love this I’m going on a tangent bliss emotionally focus there is the FTC where it’s all about. I understand my job’s not fixer judge any empathy the or my partner and I just feel like man that really exposed a lot of bless their hearts men and they’re fixing mentality wanting to say they think you’re coming from a good placing racing. Don’t worry about it. It’ll be okay right and so so I can already eal with the chronic pain piece that dynamic in relationships that I see on my couch couch where if a woman is really. I do see a lot of times where the guy says look. I don’t even know what to do with this or you. Just need to get over this in your head and and I know that even when me saying that it’s very insensitive that I feel like he’s kind of trying to say come on like just don’t let it get you down because he doesn’t know what else to do or say but but so what is that difference or why is there well first of all it’ll be hugely beneficial. If people like you could talk to medical students about this because I I know they have so much to learn. I have an criminal respect for Dr. I really really do. I two of my son in laws are in healthcare industry and I know that doctors go into it because they really wanNA help eat exactly. I totally believe that but I do think sometimes there’s some leftovers of what might have been labeled hysteria at one point in the medical world about women and it’s not because people are bad. It’s it’s just the the time shift in when people know better they do better and we just get the word out air so I just wanted to read you a couple of things that <hes> a couple of studies so these are official statistics that even cited now. I’m not making this up but or example seventy percent set of people with chronic pain are women but eighty percent of the studies are conducted on males or even male mice. Wow a lot yeah aw studies are done on men and they’re finding the way women metabolize different drugs or handled pain.



00:45:07 – 00:50:04


All that is quite different than aluminium with it so we’re just just starting to. I think teachers are finally starting to do that some other things that I I wanted to point out there is there’s a paper that I think is pretty. It was called a girl who cried pain. I’m a bias against women in the treatment of pain. These are by some doctors but this is a quote from not although women more frequently report pain to a healthcare provider they are more more likely to have their pain reports discounted as emotional or psychogenic in they’re not real women being socialized to attend more than their physical parents are more more likely than men to healthcare providers assume they are not in pain if they look more physically attractive not pain are more likely to delay seeking treatment meant but generally receive more aggressive response healthcare providers ons. They entered the healthcare system so things like that are kind of interesting to me. There’s another study this. Lewis I think out of a harbor women painters Verdi’s inexperience and treatment consider this women pain are more likely than men enter received prescriptions for sedatives rather than medication for their ailments so they talked about how a man a woman could walk into an ear emergency emergency room and talk about the exact same symptoms have the exact same diagnosis. The man will be sent away with a painkiller and and the woman will be sent away with a set wow okay. That’s we need to separate podcasts on this entire thing to call. I have so many studies like that and it’s not because people are bad and I have to say on apart blood. It’s not because I’ve had doctors. Tell me that it’s in my head and if you ask women in fact there was one study that showed eighty three percent of women have found gender bias in healthcare and if you’re a woman of color cler it’s even worse but it happens a lot and like I’m saying it’s not because anyone’s bad and my part in it. Is You know when the doctor told me you know you’re probably just stressed. Rest your head. You know what I did. I clammed up. I walked out of the door. I wear my car and I cried. Why didn’t I you say no. I don’t think so I didn’t and if people don’t know better you better so that is my fault. I needed to stand or we we are back. We had a little bit of a Internet glitch and so and we were you were being passionate I was I was being passionate. Maybe there’s too much passion. Eh clogged. Maybe that’s what happened. You’re holding still for so long. I thought well he billy loves what I’m talking about me. I’m glad it depends on yeah what face I had then when the Internet stop because you can still hear you Nicole as they both look honestly here’s where my add moment human human. I wanted to do a screen capture video but then I thought that was the last pickup your your story that you’re telling it was just saying how. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you. Know doctors who might assume that would under the woman’s problem is in her head <hes>. I think it’s a cultural problem. We’re all getting over it. We as women <hes> we need to do our part as well and I I was. I was referencing how I haven’t done my part because when a doctor has blown loaned me off or made me feel like my symptoms were in my head when I did was I didn’t say anything I left. The doctor’s office office went into my car and cried. How’s that going to help the doctor because if he doesn’t know any better he can’t do better and I should have said something and I think we need you to be more assertive about saying. Hey you know when you talk in my head. That’s just not clicking with me because I have these symptoms that can be tracked okay. You’re here’s my fever or here’s here’s this really that we need to stand up and Kinda Ottmar about that. Is that a place and it’s so funny I realize were the little ways into the podcast and we haven’t really talked about earlier talking about am. I play Journal and so I even what you talk about track the ear these symptoms. I can track track that one of the coolest parts about this is I just opened up to any page rewrite. We will you know the the in its rate the daily challenge. Oh I love the daily challenges by the way this one. I haven’t open up. Ask someone for your is an amazing. You like really good dessert so I love. We’re over your your house to try but on all the paint your the the date the pain levels. AM PM symptoms. Notes dosages stat asleep exercise water. I mean you’ve got a cool little graphic where you show. Where is the pain so you’re that’s I love this. Everyone needs one of these interview. Go walking at your your doctor armed with the mind play journal and they say it’s in your head that it’s like.



00:50:04 – 00:55:01


Can you just don’t do this for a minute please. Yes <hes> saw asking is tracking your physical symptoms so you can see patterns are learned. Triggers are take to your doctor but the other half is. Let’s raise your emotional emotional base which is so cool that is because that’s the right the daily challenges and you’ve got some just amazing quotes in on the Cape <unk> fictitious regularity fictitious person and tell them what your dreams are. You just turn page making the list of two small things others have done for you too small things you’ve done for others every day the next what can what makes you unique and so now. I really am. I’m so touched. I guess we’re talking before. We hit record again that your goal is. Are you bet tracking real pain. Levels will symptoms Tom in in your keeping dosages medications but it’s also owns the right of the page there to raise wayside get as legal talk for minute about the whole neural plasticity when she’s been coated in a lot of your podcasts. That’s part of it yeah well. I think it’s connected to the emotional baseline way because I think that your brain is so good at the more you think something that faster a you’re you’re gonNA go right to the top and so we hope that in your journal we made specific writing prompts that kind of guide your thinking somewhere somewhere more a bit more positive and so we have like creative writing prompts we have ones that help you kind of rewrite your story in a more more positive way and what you learn from it and what you can learn from it continually and then we also have the gratitude sections so that you can keep thinking gene about why you’re grateful for at the end of each day hopefully as you go through the Journal. It’ll be easier to see the good in your life in. Hopefully that will yet make you feel a little bit better. We can change those pathways branch and I love it because again what I love when I’m being dead serious that what I love about each hey you open it up and you got real. I am I am not crazy. This is my reality symptoms though suggest painless and so we’re we’re not dismissing that we’re not saying that’s just in your head. We were acknowledging that and on the way I these prompts have me again not ignoring the the reality of pain in those things that are on my life to the right as but okay what what am I going to be a little more aware of something that can be grateful for or I’m going to do this. Exercise The the writing prompts are credible because it’s like okay again. I know what I’m saying this over and over but this is why how much I love this. I’m not ignoring the reality of my pain but then also aw I don’t have to have set somebody’s not dismissing the about crew myself in the journal that is real and then on the other side and I’m starting to think about what are some traits enjoy or what are some things. I’m grateful for that. I love is I started to do a little bit each day. I’M GONNA. Maybe look for a little more things. I said I might be grateful for it might be thinking about what yesterday and I might. It might even be thinking about it. I could have included this in there or that reminded me of a time where I mean. That’s is incredible. It really is and I know it. Just seems like something little. It’s like Oh really a journal is going to help you change your life but I mean writing in the Journal. Wants is not GonNa Change Your Life but if you consistently are thinking about what can I look for today. It’s GonNa make me grateful and you are consistently gently rewriting your pain story into you know things that you’ve learned and looking out for ways. You can help other people if you’re consistently do that. You can’t make changes yeah. Yes kind of back to select flyby at you. It told me this because he had the the jer the name because I love it but tell me the story story about the <unk> so people have chronic illness. Unfortunately there’s not a ton they can do us in point. There’s no cure to a lot of these these things and so you can kind of feel stuck and your body isn’t really cooperating won’t be perfect kind of hope that the Journal would even though your body stuck allow your mind to kind of escape and you can take everything that’s in your head and put it into your journal and find comforted. Go that way either one of you in particular who had the idea of mine flight. I’m curious another keep track. That’s the Nice thing Roy <music> down. I have no idea who does what he was hoping that right in just for the sake of drunk people to the video this again that yeah yeah kind of like rate here. You know like you talked about that you are you’re. You’re in a lot of these groups.



00:55:01 – 01:00:04


Based groups are chronic pain. I mean and I love that you had reached down and ask them questions. I mean did you. What was the response awesome saying asking them. What would questions <unk> well three of my pain groups. I had said you in this podcast with Tony Over Bay. What do you want others to know about chronic pain and I had over just three hundred responses in some of those in the roots put together Masterson a couple of days. I mean a lot of them can kind of similar but I did. I printed them out my head some that. I wanted to read to you agree. Has I think that I think other people who have chronic pain will see themselves in this but I think other people need to hugh because for me. A lot of people refer to like invisible illness. I think there’s a lot of people who have no idea that my life life is full of chronic pain and that’s okay. Sometimes I don’t always want that to be. I WanNa be you know labeled as a crime painters person. I don’t feel like I am. I really don’t think gotta have pain but it’s not my identity further and this is again. I don’t think this will oh sound creepy because we go way back and you know where your husband is. My best all these things I mean. You’re you’re a beautiful woman in so easily and so. I like what you’re saying earlier. I think people are are sane nine or she is. She must not have it because she’s like you say. She looks like she you know she is. She’s pretty. She’s so. She can’t have it. It can’t be hurt right yeah. Oh Oh yeah and I think I would make that worse because I always feel like I need to really kind and not be a Downer so when I talked to my doctors you know kind of upbeat you know. I don’t think I would have had some of the surgeries that I’ve had if it hadn’t been for my husband because I’ll see you later on doctor. You know patients is very cheerful. You know like Anna one point for one of my surgeries. He’s like you know you’re just too young to have this done and I don’t think he saw the incredible amount pain I was in and my husband was there with me and he’s like no no no no wait. Her life is missed and I couldn’t have said that for myself because I felt like I don’t WanNa be Debbie Downer. You know now I’m realizing that about myself is that part of being an advocate like it not be really super nice and I don’t want to see that I could be too negative so it’s just a hard why see that with the sometimes when I have clients that are GONNA go. They finally feel like they may be have. ADHD or they might have something else. The medication can help and they’re going going to go get testing and I now feel like say hey be honest when you’re taking the psychological evaluation because I’ve had back Johnny they they didn’t they didn’t diagnosed me with it and and say why and then I’ve had I remember one person in particular. Tell me once I got taken the test. I didn’t think I was really. I didn’t want the crazy so so they weren’t answering the question and so when you went a nothing so when I think before we get to the stories to a <hes> win win the we’d had a little glitch. We were talking before we hit recording in. I want this. I don’t mind how long we go here. I want so if people want people in and it just listen to is. I think this is GonNa be really valuable. Here’s some of the things that you’re gonNA share and so I just think that you’ve got so much good information that we talked before about trying to contain this in an hour or split up into two episodes but I just feel like you could share whenever you feel is important out of the things that you do this. Okay okay so this was posted in in three of my groups so the people that responded have either TriGem <unk> Neuralgia or Hemiplegic migraine. I agree which I was just lucky enough to start getting after all this happened and that some <hes> vibrates for me like I lose my speech and the left side becomes paralyzed so it can be kind of scary so these people that have to deal with some pretty spurious things and for some people who have pleaded migraines you that you can be paralyzed for a year. You can go into a coma. I mean they’re Kinda. Serious things so you have some heavy stuff. I just I just wanted to read a few of their comments. <hes> these are what people wanted others to know about chronic pain how it affects every single aspect of our lives. I can say T. and destroyed my life. My work my relationships my mood everything revolves around fear of flair and when it happens as I said at the the other day it’s like every single day we’re playing Russian. Roulette person said I think people find it hard to believe because low k most of the time nobody checks on you anymore and they don’t want to hear the same old same oil. They don’t get it. Please stop telling me to cut out gluten dairy sugar corn. Corn Soy non-organic Foods Cetera also please stop telling me to go.



01:00:04 – 01:05:04


Vegan get off birth control. Stop Drinking Caffeine which my lightbulbs try yoga qualities or to use essential essential oils. That’s right there that is I hear that in therapy all along. Do you really ahead so I it’s my favorite favorite spooning medium and there’s do Viking warriors and they’re looking at this field of other dead. Vikings is right and the one Viking says to the other Viking. How do we know if they’re dead and the other Vikings says watch this. I have a propagandist and all of a sudden you see these. It goes all over the field trying to central oils. Have you tried Kito Diet all the time but you it’s coming from a good place. I think people genuinely Dude WanNa help yeah yeah I do too. You know I am not clear. You know someone tells does me you know I have back pain immediately. I’m like I have got paid to and then I was like listening to your last episode on empathy and I realized I need a shut up. It’s so hard to tell you and I thought very clever and I’ve started doing this thing in in office in my in my counseling sessions where I’ll even say say okay. I’m just going to do therapy one <unk> what psychology Wanna one would say it almost as if I’m saying I’m not saying this. I’m having empathy for you last the one that I might say. Have you thought about being being Kale juice cleanse whenever I mean by way to say no no. No I promise as you. I’m being very empathetic. But have you tried these things. You know and it’s so it’s like. Did you have more of those to read. These are good. I really like Opem Lar- I I mean there’s so many <hes> this one says I think having medical specialists just shrug their shoulders and say will nothing’s really wrong. You’re just having symptoms can be very discouraging urging with so many chronic illnesses. There’s no medical understanding of why they’re happening or how to change them. <hes> I think just leaving people to fend for themselves with things like migraine gene hemiplegic migraine chronic fatigue pots. Autoimmune is not really good enough. I’d like to see more support on health and how we can promote health in spite of chronic illness musk and how people can with chronic illness can be better cared for in supported up. Yeah it is true because that’s the thing about chronic and when I asked my son in law actually has Kiara is well which sadly for my future grandchildren from that family because now we’ve got Yari on both sides and what’s by us what what is that what yours on a Kahad that gets Chiarini month where the bottom of your brain starts getting. Kinda sucked into your spinal canal so so he said what he wished other people knew is the thing about chronic. Pain is at its chronic. It’s forever in you know I think when someone says I I have cancer. We get that we’re like. Oh we know. What cancer is you know and we know what happens. When people with cancer will some of these other more obscure illnesses is really knows about and so the thing is there. Is No cure for some of these end. They will have pain possibly every day until the day they died. That’s their prognosis. That’s what they have it all the time. I thought this was the best I’ll stop here but I could go on and on with what people wish new and I thought this was the most fabulous Louis Idea I’m the best thing he could do for some with chronic illness google their disease because that really shows like Eilon L. al I care about what you have because if someone does that then it really will. I think there’s where empathy might again of holy cow you. He’s is all right yeah on. I love that because I do feel like an eight here on pat myself on the back but when when I feel like I made that switch to okay okay bring me you’ll bring me your Google diagnosis into my office and let’s go through those that checklist and then. I want you to talk about each one of those symptoms. In what does this mean to you and until he stories about when that’s happened in Oh my goodness people didn’t just be heard and I it is so so and I wish more people could have that because in fact it was really interesting and I think it was in your Migraine. PODCAST metronome shot up there as yeah you mentioned that you just read a study that <hes> people’s spouses don’t even believe them sometimes. I can’t imagine going through the pain that I’ve had to go through. If my family didn’t believe me yeah yeah outlaw it does it in an fortunately that’s the stuff where I see that the HSP part once that alone <hes> bringing that into therapy where I’ve had some in that one that the it’s primarily or there’s a higher percentage and women that have that sensory processing sensitivity and they bring it up in there.



01:05:05 – 01:10:01


You’re like oh my gosh. I finally feel heard that there is that it’s not a it’s it’s hard for me to get over it or I can’t just your little in it and then bringing that out as an emotional bid and still having a a partner say. I don’t know if I believe that anybody. Can we get back to why I feel like I’m not her. You know and it’s like oh my gosh yeah. Those are some of the most difficult sessions period though I’m somebody at work or yeah okay so so where we go from here I mean I’ve got so many other questions. You had something in some of the things that we talked about too. I’m fascinated by this idea of the crowd sourcing for Diagnosis ’cause I’ve never actually done that but I heard a podcast on it and I talked to a couple of people about you you know have they thought about it in one particular never heard of it. What is that is. Is it common in the chronic pain community. I think it’s becoming more so that way there was just a show that recently came out called diagnosis I think and it was by the rights for the New York Times and they started crowd sourcing. They would put people’s Wolf L. Mrs. In symptoms have people were sending from all over the world what they thought it would be and they’re figuring things out. I think that that’s going to be the way of the future because when you can connect like in one of my group’s Genucel Neuralgia were connected with people all over the world as such a rare illness but now we have expertise apiece from Europe. We have expertise from journey. We can have medical articles we can share stories and I think that <hes> getting the world to participate and help can only make better. Thanks for people who have chronic oh so. Is there a place. Is that something I can link someone to are. Is there a a a site for people who crowdsource diagnosis is something. Maybe wish there was if there if there is I know about it but I really hope that’s the way of the future okay so maybe people are listening to this and they have things they can shoot us. You email <hes> <hes> that will be great now but I think that just you know finding groups from Nascar held other people say oh a a lot of people will have the opposite view of what I have like. Don’t Google your symptoms whatever you do I find that I find that kind of disrespectful that what you think that I can’t handle learning about the human body and what happens and for me it gave me such great comfort to understand what was going on with my body and and to connect with other people who were going through some of the same things so for me. It’s been a blessing to have the world kind of open to me through some of these groups and that’s all right and I don’t even I’m saying this off the cuff but I feel like this gets into those deeper issues. I kind of feel I see in part of why do the podcast that I do. Is I feel like lots of things with somebody googling there on symptoms. Guess what I feel like that means because they’re not hurt because they haven’t found anybody. That’s been near and really helped him. Under Stephen. Leaving Office is part of that big I needed. I should do a podcast episode on even I felt like this was a ship for me as a professional because a lot they listened to the podcast but it is that if someone is googling first of all if someone I don’t care who you are if you you probably have googled something that you have I’ve been concerned about or and your pain or if it’s a knee pain from running equal hainer shin-splints though you know for when somebody says Oh they they shouldn’t do that number one. They did number two. I believe you probably did two or three that means that they’re not number four. It’s an opportunity to connect and have <hes> empathy to say now. Tell me more because fired up okay so <hes> also <hes> you you you talk about the different podcasts you credit that for helping you finish the journal so that means you tell me what that’s about. Well I think warrant the things that helped us finish. The Journal was having a girl mindset Edano by learned that from a specific podcast but just from the book mindset you know cut-back <unk> a lot about that and I have that on my bookshelf right here in a meeting. I WANNA do a podcast on that one so good Ed. It’s really it’s just the idea of you. You can grow your your rain isn’t Vicks your rank and grow as much as you want it to not coming down to Earth insane all just never be good at something. You know you can always go spend enough time <music>. I’m doing it also not being afraid of doing something hard not being afraid of failure because usually a good thing that you’re trying and you’re doing something you looking and so that mindset helped us with the journal does not being afraid to try something new also what we learned or at least what I learned from.



01:10:01 – 01:15:03


I think it was jody’s are cast Array Brooks. You just have to look at the next thing when you have a big project yourself. What the next thing that we need to do because it can get overwhelming? We had business license. Get R. E. N. Come up with the book at all you know three hundred quotes and all that other writing promising. I think just ask yourself. What’s the next step and doing it. It just makes it so much easier in mature enjoyable to yeah it comes to mind to do you ever hear that phrase elephant. When by the time I was struggling they claim this is the eighty department I get stuck on. Why are we GONNA elephant right. You can’t it just be like a giant the Christian good question. Thank you for at learning growth mindset if it wasn’t for her would finish because I I think I wasn’t as a believer like I didn’t know if I could I really do this. She was gung. Ho on it like do it. I think that’s wonderful but <hes> podcasts for me have been so helpful in in my chronic pain <hes> when I have a hemiplegic Migraine mice my site in my hearing hearing are super sensitive so I go in a dark room. I’m sitting there with a heating pad over my face and I can’t live at screens or anything <music> but what I can do is I turn by phone. I turn on podcasts. Put it under the pillow so it’s a little muffled and and and I can I can learn. It’s it’s hard for me because I think part of my self esteem was caught up in what I can do like my value to the world is how much can cross off my to do list and that’s probably the hardest thing for me about chronic. Pain is a coaling still for one and not be feeling like I’m worthwhile because I’m not getting things done or I’m not helping others <unk>. How podcasts have helped me. Is I at least feel like I am learning and growing. I can turn a podcast. I can hear someone else’s viewpoint. I can learn learn more about how someone else feels or learn about history or science not just sitting there wasting away which I love which it goes back to your your journal in I mean in general of you’re not discrediting the physical symptoms and the pain and those constantly constant leaning toward okay even if it’s like what easily saying is what’s next or or just aiming that the training that neuro plasticity the Niro awards and keep an I know you guys get this so much but I feel like it goes back to the and we’re not dismissing the pain. I feel like when People Board hearing on strike just meditate just exercise. I feel like they’re geared is okay. Just I’m not acknowledging your pain. You need to focus on on this other thing. It’s like not being there. We it is their right and it’s now can lean more towards these things so we have the journal pain levels the pain map too so there’s a spot to spots in there in the maybe even more rink right your symptoms where you can at least if no one is asking that day. Hey about your pain. You know at least you have the journal is waiting there where you can write your pain when I imagined the first thing I thought about ’cause I love the little Golo people the you. Oh Yeah you’ve got the little people I’m sure. There are some days where they circle the entire person right where they just feel everything. Whether there was something on the elbow or shoulder or the heart there I mean I love that because that they are unsure where it’s just might hurt the heart to feel like nobody cares or we’re not. He’s listening yeah so the quotes I mean you have some of those are your favorite or some of the writing prompts favourite or definitely definitely go ahead on yeah so I- full two of my favorite ones and one of them was just take one negative thought what you have and write it down in next <unk> next to it right what if I’m wrong and what would your life and I think that’s nice because sometimes we believe we’ve all in her head. So it’s Kinda. Nice to just take a step back and look at what you’ve been thinking about your pain story in your life in general on just rethink in different ways to look at things and then I speak to that too is I yeah I was just saying the part I do a lot of episodes on acceptance and commitment therapy and what I love about that is if you’ve got a goal. It’s goal is based on your own values so not not what somebody else thinks that you need to be doing then those those stories that your brain is trained to hook you two or get you to believe are the knee will often get you stock stuck so that you’re not working toward that goal and one of the biggest things.



01:15:03 – 01:20:02


I love about that is you’re not even debating fest stories true all said. I feel like with chronic pain. You know right. If that story sorry is that this is I I know I am the <unk> pain is is overwhelming at times or it’s intense or and if you’re truly will hook refuse to that story story in and I understand because you’re trying to thinks it’s doing you a solid because it knows what right like even scared of what the going after that goal will be either emotionally or physical pain either one right but we’re not even debating stories. Travolta’s those are true for chronic pain that is true but is it a workable thought ought towards my goal and I just I really like what you’re saying there so again. We’re not saying we’re not this. County are saying aren’t true stories but are they workable thoughts caboodle so I I like the issue in the Olea <hes> and then I honestly just like some of the quotes in writing impromptu challenges that are just for fun and self care oriented because that’s nice to have every once in a while someone telling you to do something for yourself off because some people need people to do that and so I like our writing prompts are like what character from a book or movie would you like to me in <unk> on stuff like that and challenges that are slip away into a world of fiction create a playlist for meditation create a morning routine. That’s GonNa Anna. Help you out or make your bedroom war behavior. You know things are just going to help make their environment or a little bit better motion day sign yeah exactly. That’s like when Neil that where I feel like sometimes I feel the emotional baseline is simply giving someone permission to have self care or to do things for themselves because it you’ll like while I I should be doing that. I should be doing all of these things rather people and that’s where I go with the self care now. You’re going to be in a better spot. Do things that that you wanNA do okay Nicole. My wife would just strangling ring. Is that when talking about those favorite character which favorite book one of our favorite things NHS is when we would go over to your house and if you’re on going but we would often on the met with a hey yeah wh- who who is your favorite you know. I don’t know if you would could could be any kind of tree. What would you be or where would you gonNA perfect girl there. What’s your vacation and and it was you would throw these questions. I I really WanNa know these things about the we love that and so we carried that with us where sometimes you know went on and it might just be it almost like a Nicole question <unk> call map that where it is this okay all right yeah. We just watched a movie when you were. You’ve liked to be and I don’t think I wouldn’t I that’s Nicole Yeah. I probably didn’t realize that not everybody has those thoughts. I’m like never thought I’ll country. It was literally one that you asked early on and I remember thinking Oh. I don’t really like a lot of different kinds of trees. I know there. It is a short man. His tall go very in favor obser- are those kind of things okay. Mine is a little I would be tempted to read a lot favorites but and I’ll just talk about one because it’s meant a lot to kind of mushy. I like you know. How much sense have you seen. You Cry Emotional on the government not that no oh kind of gets serious for some reason and it’s been so helpful for me. Maybe you could tell me why I do and I don’t even know him up with this idea. Maybe I didn’t maybe the I heard somewhere and I’m crediting myself but one of the problems is to take a picture it yourself when you’re young and printed out and put it somewhere where you can see it. In every time you see that picture. Just speak some really kind words to that person person so you’re you’re talking to your child so I have this little picture of myself and I’m like five or six and I don’t know what is so healing about this but I see that cute little girl and I say well you are so creative or you are so strong and just doing that. I mean it has made as such a difference in my life. Maybe you could tell me why I don’t even know why but it has been so helpful. I can’t that one is the so there’s there is okay. Here’s the psychology one on theories says but I mean there is a there is where we do feel like <hes> had we necessarily been encouraged from are from the time that we were young. What would spiel different look different. I think some of that goes to that <hes>. HSP sensory processing sensitivity one of the fascinating is that in cultures or societies where something the HSP for example is never questioned.



01:20:02 – 01:25:03


If some imagine a kid that has never told just suck it up or you know are not so sensitive when those nurture from that time those are the people that are in looked at is the you know they are the wise men in a village or the medicine women are that so I think that sometimes when we do do those things it is the how many times in her own mind we feel like we are stunted or imagination was told that it was it wasn’t I’m being practical or I mean so that would just be something that I think maybe to somebody to explore there. I remember how many times I feel like. I was told told my eight which I never knew as a child or never knew something young. I was told that that was that story was maybe irrelevant winter. Why did I bring that up or you know so you learn to stuff those things. I can imagine if I printed up a little kid. It’s your myself. It would have been pretty funny funny. You pretty funny mind or that. Oh no that was a good one. I would imagine that would have been pretty healing as beautiful yeah. Old Song has approved walk. That’s good so he also the writing part of the the prompts. I mean I feel like at least I know Nicole you. You’ve you’ve enjoyed writing. I mean does that part of such a believer like I have. I had journals since I was young girl but my journals are traditional dear diary today I what a visit with Tony Over Bay Ayaan. I don’t write about happened but I will pick a subject you know or even a funding list like my journals are like twenty smells is that I enjoy or you know happy memories from my childhood which we really kind of incorporated into the Journal. They’re just little things things that you can ride about and I’ve always believed that it. It does something she ran. You get to know yourself a little bit better and I started doing even some research on studies as the people who journal it’s a religious thing and I’m sure you can floor more about that with your your background in psychology but what I’ve found is you know they talk about people who have <hes> who journal and they like better understand themselves <hes> they they do better with self chair. They’re your more insightful to their to their own minds and I think that there is something that we’ve been missing in. This fast paced world of cell phones in screen time. There’s something about physically taking a pen to paper and just writing some thoughts down on it. I think it’s something very a hearing. NSL absolutely and you’re right. There is a tremendous amount of data because even that alone whether you’re reporting back I was scared I pause connecting. You guys worried concerned that was okay but but I do <hes> it is. It’s slowing things down. which is a good thing anytime you can kinda start to it? Look worried about all the external things that are going on not be so reactive regular more proactive and over time it does become a if you are going to journal even you’re more aware throughout the day of the used to be more aware more present and I think that that’s why I love you know I do the daily mindfulness meditation in the morning this ad space and I feel like if I do it in the morning and I’m going throughout the day now being more aware being more Michael or you know for people religious or spiritual you you read some Bait. Promoting texts scriptures a phony stories in the morning. You’re thinking speaking of that as you go about your day so like it’s just being more aware and of planting that seed as you go about my thoughts no it’s it’s hard to explain to people like. I’m sure it’s frustrating in your profession. It’s like you. WanNa probably screen from the rooftops. Don’t meditation can really help them. <hes> and I feel about drilling. It’s like I’m. I’m sure someone’s going yeah writing. Now’s really going to help me consistently show up and see what happens you that is so you are so true that is right ’cause as with mindfulness and I just was talking with the new client a couple of days ago and I said I said man. I hate to sound so blase about this. I said I’m going to now go into a little bit about is they wanted some tools. They wanted some homework and it went into the I’m GonNa talk about mindfulness minute and I’m GonNa go and let you know twenty five percent of people that I talk with will never do it and they will just think it’s ridiculous. In twenty five percent of the people aren’t going on. I’m today in started daily. Mindfulness practice and it’s going to change their life sooner than they anticipated. Ya Percent Chunk are going to try it eventually kind of get the idea. It gets kind of helpful anytime I bring up mindfulness.



01:25:03 – 01:30:03


Neither go right right. I know I did it because they’re not doing that and so I imagine the journal the thing is probably the same and I need to take that challenge as well because I think it would be helpful into range of these. I need to commit that to you. I will do that. I was trying to write right. What about that. I know we talked about this a little bit but any other kind of <hes> interesting thoughts or stories around working as a mother daughter dynamic. I’m sure there the people listening their thinking. I don’t know if it worked with my mom. I don’t know if I could work with my daughter. I mean it was easier than you thought well super easy or I don’t know we’re into the all the personality tests but like Myers Briggs yeah. We’re the same thing we’re both. I N F Jay’s so yeah one thing would you did you already know that. Can you tell maybe I wanna go there total ahead but anyway one thing for us. It’s important is like it’s hard for us to pour ourselves workwise into something we really believe in it and we both really believed in it a- and so it was fun for us to do together. We’re on the same page. We wanted to get this out to the world so it was really easy for us to work on it and I think it was really nice having to people because sellin loses faith yeah. There’s like no no no no we can do it while it’s a busy celebrity over your story earlier as where your if you’re the one with yeah that growth mindset or that will next and I really heard you what you’re saying that if your mom points were saying. I don’t know if we can right. I mean I imagine Nicole in this. Is I think <hes> with anybody. That’s trying to take on something by by themselves. It’s that’s their. Her story is my brain is going to try to use me to keep me away from the own. I did just finish island finished my first book project project and I had a CO author and I know I wouldn’t have had the CO author that I I know I wouldn’t have finished it and so the next one I wanna do it does and it’s isn’t even with that. I know that I needed time him to tell me that we got this and it was it was just really helpful of injuries that at all <unk> our husbands are very supportive. They total believed in this yeah. It’s a great idea husbands. I you know obviously the cold Jay in my proclaimed. BFF As husband and your child was a tiny on cool guy in the world yeah that was really cool. Okay Sir Right so so I am kind of <music> easily. Go Way back as favorites. I was seminary teacher by the way for sure thank you that was I’m Kristie of how has this one might be a big question but how has pain change you for the better <hes> that <unk> don’t tell me more about that. I’d love to talk anything for sure okay. <hes> I mean like I said earlier I I don’t have as much pain as her or a lot of other people so my perspective’s slightly different but I think for me what I’ve learned from watching them in experiencing a little it is just the importance of balance. I think when you have chronic pain. It’s really hard to know. Should I rest in. TRY TO HUGH my body in and take a break so I don’t get worse or get a flare up or should I just hush through an attack day in gladder things and so it’s really hard hard to decide each day which one you’re going to do and so I think it’s just really important to if you’re not GonNa have journal or something. Dantley stink about your body. Just try to pay attention to yourself in go with your instincts. If you’re feeling like you need to lay down lay down and don’t feel indulgent about it. Just give yourself a break and if you’re feeling like you WANNA push through then go for it. I think it’s just important to find the balance in not make sure you’re you’re overdoing it. Also you know yeah resting. I don’t know if that makes sense makes so much sense because I feel like that is the part where people feel guilty about about that or people who are guilty of they need to take year. They need more transition time or by like what you’re saying is trust yourself. Trust your body or I mean. That’s an yeah I know yeah people’s then that’s where stories come in the reign of yeah within you might think I’m this or people might whatever and and if our goal is to heal or to really feel better or improve or or keep sanity or any of those things in those stories debating if they’re true or false people might with anything right.



01:30:03 – 01:35:11


That’s not a whole lot toward the your your growth. I like that exactly K goal. I feel like this can be learned right outside not to go on and on but in all honesty. I’m not trying to be cheesy or anything at all but I’m a better curson because of these weird things that happened in my life. The obvious answer is of course I’m more compassionate towards others and I feel like I’ve always felt like I probably am highly. Sensitive Person. <unk> sense others pains times but even now. I feel like I can tell when somebody needs to talk or somebody’s not listen. You know. I do feel like I can identify these things more quickly because I’ve gone through this experience. That’s the the obvious one but some things that maybe other people wouldn’t see that have changed. Me Are the one on a smarter person I like you have. AD and when you and I were in school really wasn’t a thing and that’s why you’re add podcast so much because I grew up. I didn’t think I was smart because I mean I did okay at school but I did not feel very intelligence and and coming through this and realizing I can’t even count how many hundreds and hundreds of hours I have sent researching <hes> neurology in surgery at those are my bedtime stories and and I feel like I feel like it’s kind of empowered me to feel like I can understand these things and I am a smarter person. She really is smarter harder because any time. Anyone has a weird illness going on. She can diagnose things now I now. I know that’s a whole other. Show me the Nichols reality. Show on the road okay. I love it <music> but it’s also taught me to be more assertive <hes> to maybe stick up for myself more. <hes> it’s taught me is okay to say no <hes> <hes> and to not worry about other stink if I have to break a commitment because I have I’m paying that day and someone is insulted and they they think that maybe blowing off. I can’t change that again. I feel like my friends. They will understand and I just have to let the rest the rest of the disco but I’ve learned also I can do hard things I can do pain I can I can go oh through some hard times and but most importantly for me I really learned about the inherent goodness of other people might have learned how serve there have been some people who have done some very very kind things that I might not have thought of particularly when my daughter had a brain surgery three there were people that reached out did some amazing things and as I saw that happening I just felt very privileged to learn learn. This is what you do. This is how you helped somebody pain and it has been it’s just it’s just an honor to have those lessons in my life and to learn how good wow that is amazing that is and so do you feel like you obviously this and I’m not trying to make this into sales pitch here but I feel like you’ve. You’ve encapsulated a lot of that. In <hes> in your book of just I mean with that is it feels positive pieces in the journals and the right the gratitude and the so that does I mean I’m kind of hearing that is you’re saying that is again said I always do that because I know it’s on the left hand. It’s like there’s all this beauty that is still out there who you’re paying ill-timed beauty in the world oh yeah yeah and then so maybe maybe kind of as we kind of wrap things up here. What do you recommend people do. If there are people people are going to hear this and they’re going to know wow. I’m going to look at other people in analysis. I know someone that has chronic pain and I am now what you would do. What do they say you know. What what can they do to help somebody be yeah. I think what the person on the one facebook pages that earlier about researching researching somebody else’s illness that one really does really important to me because it just shows that you’re willing to go the extra mile to understand what they’re going it through and I think that’s one reason why love that thinks. Odeon say yeah I would saone belief people when they tell you you know if they if they tell you they’re not well. Don’t just don’t blow them off. You know don’t think they’re making making it up because if he believed is so validating when you have something you cannot figure out and let people know that their value for who they are because because if they’re like me.



01:35:11 – 01:40:12


I described how hard it was for me to <hes>. I had to really work on my self esteem because my self esteem was how much across off off my to do list then all of a sudden. I can’t do you list. I had to really do some work on okay. I am a person just who I am so if you could remind people people that your love for who you are not what you get done. I think that’s helpful. You should probably bring cookies. That’s always a great idea <hes> because nothing law and then <hes> I really think you should believe in the goodness of others. I never stop losing bats <hes> but also Tony I have to say and I’m not just trying to you know Hoffy up here. There are some there’s some really good episodes that you have that. I wrote down that I think would help honestly ill. I thought your your last one that you did on empathy you and I think that was ninety. Five or no one thirty nine but I also wrote down ninety five also talk about pathy but one thirty nine how to see that was probably what I would recommend the number one podcast for people to listen to who knows someone who has chronic pain or Brazil. I loved that on on that <hes> it was beautiful and that’s one of my favorites but you also have some <hes> you had episode one twenty eight on Dr Adam Hardcore and he talked a lot about concussions migraines and <hes> you had one oh six Honora plasticity of the brain and we talked about that. All of your episodes are good but I think this is your number one downloaded podcasts that I would recommend freezing your emotional baseline kind. Is that number twelve oh. I see you’re so funny. I don’t know any of the numbers of young number is so funny because once I do one and the impostor imposter syndrome kicks in as soon as I hit done and so then I don’t want to listen to you. I know what if I was what I said silly. What if nobody believes me when it comes to knocks knocks on the door and says you’re actually harming or that sort of thing so all. I appreciate that though there’s a that one I’ve tried to get in a few different serve a few different podcasts. I love it when I still believe in silly when somebody comes into my office and they talk about the emotional baseliner somebody’s quoting emotional baseline in another instagram post or in another other podcasts and there’s somebody to be interviewed or in Yeah. I’m look it’s kind of based on Tony over based. I I should’ve been given you something good. We’re good. Hey I appreciate it. I really do and I know that I just said before we wrap it up but I do feel when we had the camera ause the and my wife was leaving. You share you you. Were that was big when you were there for her as well. What was that. What was that story again when the two of you had both felt like you had been. I’m just like we’re both in a wall super tired and it was funny because we had we had told each other really. ’cause you know those kinds of things you know. You don’t just admit everyone just so tired. You know you don’t WanNa be whining everything but it was interesting because we both went to the doctor saying we’re tired and we both got <unk>. You’re just stressed or depressed I I. It was nice to have you back on your doctor. SIMPLISAFE paying Wendy is like super woman. She is like the toughest woman anyone could meet. She literally swims with sharks. You need podcast amazing shoes you you. I just said that I want her. I tried I even told her for our anniversary twenty nine. Th Anniversary can do a podcast interview with me. She’s like no. WOAH <hes> <hes>. You Know Maybe Fiftieth Anniversary may be on. I guess another twenty years. She is a fascinating insightful volunteer. She is so where do people find the flight journal art. Where do we find it. We have an instagram where we share about it. It’s just called might journal Baikal Suggest Good Mind White Journal Dot Com. Tom And all one word face the pages wealth. You ought to check it out on their yeah. We’ll have a special. Tony over bake owed. We’ll have yeah if you you put in virtual couch good deal okay. I appreciate that I do. I’m very honored by that. It really am as we get the word out and again if anybody if anybody experiences any type of chronic pain or honestly and I and again the sound the big sales pitch but I think Tennessee <unk> somebody receiving <unk> journal if they if they have talked about having chronic on an and have not heard I mean I feel like this.



01:40:12 – 01:43:18


Would this would be an incredible gift to get. I mean talk about somebody saying I’m not just going to try. It’s like the other person that I don’t believe you or whatever but actually here is <hes>. You’ll be wonderful gift eighty all right. We’ll have you you want again. I think we need to go over those stories. You’re you down. We’ve left. We knew podcasts. We gotta do a whole podcast series on this. We the new reality TV show. We have to be very interesting as you would be. You Jay would be laughing. The entire hire time buyers silly voice together. I won’t Jay on a podcast. I just gotTa figure out what what I can talk about because buried very very many the stories where yeah having similar types of humor in situations where that humor was not necessarily appreciated <hes> some of the funniest times of all I’d sell but I do no question for you one last question yeah make an anonymous appearance on your eighty podcasts about what was it. What was the story in. Which one were we talking about eighty. Who told you about. How is adderall changed his life? I was like Oh that’s that’s my husband and I know I shouldn’t have been yeah. That might have been funny. That would pretty much in that changed my life all right. Hey I will I I I’m GONNA hit. I’m GonNa hit pause but you guys still hang on here for second but thanks so much for coming on the show. Oh okay so what did we learn today a little bit about what it’s like my neighbor but more importantly. I hope you learned more about the plight eight of people who are struggling with chronic pain and illness and how difficult it must be not to feel heard to be constantly told that it’s in your head or that it’s simply because you’re too stressed and and I hope you’re able to pull a few tools from today’s episode from being a better listener to maybe standing up for yourself with regard to your own health and even how to be there for folks who might be struggling with chronic pain and illness. Don’t forget Google that diagnosis and don’t forget better health dot com. Please go to better help dot com slash virtual couch because you get ten percent off your first month service and it does help a little bit with covering the cost of recording and producing the podcast and please remember that the virtual couch is not a replacement for professional counseling and I will be forever grateful if the lights something that you heard today h-share the show with a friend who you think might benefit from today’s topic and on that night <hes> on that note. If you like to show please take a quick moment. Subscribe Rate Review The show wherever you listen to podcasts asks it really does help more people find the podcast and feel free to contact me at contact@tonyoverbay.com if you have questions there’s a topic that you think would make a good podcast or if you’re going to have become speak to your group or company. Organization congregation about any of the topics that you’ve heard on the show and with that said I will see you next time on the virtual couch.




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