gossip - Tony Overbay

Podcast: Play in new window | Download | Embed

Tony talks about gossip as a social skill. According to the article, "Psychologists say that gossiping is a social skill. Here's how to know if you're doing it right," https://www.nbcnews.com/better/lifestyle/psychologists-say-gossiping-social-skill-here-s-how-know-if-ncna1056941 there is a healthy, productive way to gossip. Gossip, according to research, may actually be one of the societal forces that bring us together and help maintain social order.

Go to http://tonyoverbay.com/magnetic to learn more about the next round of Tony's transformative marriage course "Magnetic Marriage." And please subscribe to Tony's latest podcast, "Waking Up to Narcissism," wherever you listen to podcasts.

#therapy #gossip #virtualcouch #wakinguptonarcissism #tonyoverbay #tonyoverbayquote #quote #podcast #podcasting #acceptancecommitmenttherapy #motivation #coach #addictionrecovery #narcissism #happiness #behappy #mentalhealth #wellness #recovery #selfcare #anxiety #relax #mindfulness #happy #depression #mentalhealthawareness #mentalhealthmatters #psychology #MadeWithDescript #DescriptPro

-------------------------------- TRANSCRIPT --------------------------------

[00:00:15] Come on. Take a seat.

[00:00:22] Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode two hundred and ninety of the virtual couch. I'm your host, Tony Overbay, and this is I've lost track of the number of takes to open this episode because I have been trying to do a role, play a little bit of acting and trying to make it to sound so natural. So I decided instead, I will now tell you that. Buckle up. Here comes a really bad role play to get into today's episode. I now present to you the virtual couch actor's studio, which essentially is me trying to do a role play. But I refuse to start this one over. Here we go. And action. Hey, so you hear about Ted you or you didn't? Oh yeah, yeah. No, Ted got a tattoo. Yeah. What do you think about that? Oh, what kind? No. Yeah, no, that's cool, right? Yeah, no. I think it's cool, too. I think it was a logo of his favor of a baseball team. I mean, that's crazy, right? Baseball team on his arm. That's crazy, right? Oh, no, no. I didn't realize he was raised raised by his grandparents. Oh, so he and his grandpa used to go to those games a lot. Is that right? No, that makes sense. So that really must have been more about the relationship with his grandpa. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I get it. Did you see the car you just bought, though? Yeah, no, I know, right? Yeah.

[00:01:34] Who needs something that expense? I mean, come on, it's just transportation. Who cares if you don't, if you have to hold on to the steering wheel? I love taking control of my car. Yeah, no. Exactly. Ted Ted's insane about the car thing. The tattooed thing. No. Sure, I get it. I get it right. Ok. Oh, end scene. What you just witnessed there with some incredibly bad acting and role playing for the topic that we're talking about today, which is gossip, because I'm guessing that most of you listening have participated in a little gossip in your day. But depending on who you're gossiping with or two or what you are gossiping about, that is going to be an entirely different experience. And and I also guess that you have made that decision that that it's OK, even if sometimes you may learn that somebody else is gossiping and that is bad. So today we're going to talk a little bit about gossip as a social skill. Can it be a good thing? And if so, when I was reading a couple of things recently and I stumbled upon this idea, and it was just this vague idea of gossip as a way to to just check in with somebody. And I never thought about it that way. So if you are walking up to someone and you're saying, like in the incredibly horrible role playing here because there was a lot of talk right now about anything from tattoos to what shows you're watching to what politician you like.

[00:02:47] So if you're saying, Hey, how about how about that squid game this phenomenon on Netflix? And if somebody says, Oh, it's disgusting, and if you're like, Oh yeah, right, no, I know. Or if somebody says, Oh, I secretly like it and then you now feel like, Oh man, me too. So we can talk about this. The concept of gossip is so often just we're trying to check in and see, Hey, where are you at with something? And where this started coming up, especially the last few weeks. As I work with a lot of couples, I talk about that often and I work with couples that are struggling with everything. Infidelity or somebody that turns to pornography is a coping mechanism. And so when someone else is talking about maybe they're gossiping about one of these couples that's in my office, the couple will come in and let me know that they overheard somebody talking about their situation or somebody came up to them and said, Hey, people are saying this about, I've heard this about you, and it's this vibe where people are saying, Hey, did you hear about The Smiths or whoever? And if somebody says, Yeah, we just got to be there for them versus, yeah, boy, I would never do that. And you are almost just testing the water to see where other people are to see if you share a particular belief or value around whatever it is that The Smiths have done.

[00:03:56] Hey, so I'm doing a little bit of editing of the podcast. This is one of those situations where I just jumped in. The podcast has already been recorded, so I wanted to record something here where I'm talking about this fictional couple, The Smiths and the concept of gossip, because this is pretty fascinating to me. I'm talking about gossip in this context of we do this as a social creatures, and it's a way to try to test the waters to see if somebody agrees with us and we get into down later in this podcast, we're going to talk about productive ways to gossip. We're going to talk about ineffective ways to gossip. I'm going to tell you a bunch of research around gossip that's really, really interesting, but it hits me that they're going to people, be people listening to this that I am working with. Like this fictional couple named The Smiths, and it really is a fictional couple in the scenario. But I am working with people that have been going through a lot. Let's say that there's been infidelity and they're in a an incredible place now. It goes back to that betrayal trauma episode I did with Jeff Stewart, where we talked about rebuilding trust and that people often don't even know that they need new tools until they go through a pretty traumatic event.

[00:05:01] And when they have gone through the traumatic event, they seek the new tools and they embrace the tools that they actually can use all of these things for their good, and they can now have a better way to communicate. But the context I'm the reason I'm bringing it up right now is then the people. Are still around them going to gossip, and oftentimes that will actually have a pretty negative effect, let's say again on this fictional couple name, The Smiths, who then will hear that other people are talking about them even though they are starting to grow closer together, they're starting to communicate more effectively. But they will feel like they can't just go and act quote normal around people because of the gossip that they hear that people are making up additional stories or choosing sides, and when in reality the Smith couple is communicating even better. So I think that's one of those things. To just bring a little bit of awareness to is we're going to talk so much about the different types of gossip and ways to gossip. But when people are gossiping because they are trying to test the waters and see what somebody else thinks, one of the the harmful parts of that is they aren't giving the couple or the person that people are gossiping about the benefit of the doubt.

[00:06:12] And it makes so much more sense when we talk a little bit later in this episode, just in the context of Are you gossiping because you are truly wanting to just bring some awareness to someone or you gossiping because you want to take this one up position or try to share with your spouse the passive aggressive way? That man, if you ever did what The Smiths did, then I for sure would never talk to you again. So the whole concept of gossip is just so interesting, which is why I wanted to record an episode on today. But as I was going back through the editing process, I really did think about the fact that I'm missing an opportunity to let people know that if you aren't aware of someone else's experience, sure you are going to. Oftentimes, gossip is more of that. Just checking in with your spouse or somebody around you to see where they fit or where they have opinions about a certain topic or situation. But I just want you to be aware that are you even aware of how what that situation even is? Are you hearing about the situation secondhand third-hand? Or if someone let's say that in the scenario where the Smiths appear to be doing pretty good, is that gossip then done in a way that says, Well, I'm sure they're not really doing good. I mean, I'm sure they're covering things up because that's that is not a healthy version of gossip.

[00:07:24] But if it's done in a Hey, did you hear about them? They seem to be doing OK. That's fascinating, and I have never thought about what I would do if I went through that scenario. It gives me more of a curious nature and makes me want to even go directly to The Smiths and say, Man, you guys seem like you're doing well. Tell me what's going on, tell me more about your experience and that scenario. We're going to talk more about how that would be more of a productive version of gossip. So let me get right back into this episode, but I just thought I was missing this opportunity. I was I was going back and doing a little bit of editing to say that this really still ends up being about about empathy and really not knowing someone else's experience. And so then when we are gossiping about that, is that a gossip out of curiosity, of wanting a way to talk about someone else's experience with somebody close to you, your spouse? Or is it a way to then say, Hey, let's put down this other couple because because we want to to make ourselves feel better? All right, so let's jump back into this episode and or whatever you feel about a particular show or getting a tattoo or anything that people are, often that's the way. Instead of them just saying, Hey, what do you think about that? Are you pro tattoo or do you have a tattoo? Would you like to get a tattoo if you ever thought about getting a tattoo? They'll say, Well, what do you think about that guy? Get a tattoo, and then they're waiting to see what the other person says to know if they feel doing air quotes here, safe to talk about their opinion.

[00:08:43] And while I understand that, I think the the sad part sad might be the wrong word is that I would love for us to get to a place in society where it's OK to share your own opinion because your own opinion comes from all of the things that you have been through in your life. That sounds dramatic at times, but you have a belief system that is formed by all of the the data that you bring to the table. And so you may have a particular idea about what something means, whether it's a tattoo or a type of show that somebody watches or a type of humor, but that that's who you are. It makes you, you. And so I would love to get to this place where talking about my four pillars constantly, that pillar one, that there's there's a reason why somebody is saying what they're saying or the assumption of good intentions. They're not trying to hurt you, that it would lead to more curiosity to say, Hey, what do you think about tattoos, for example? And I will be super honest right now, I don't have any, and I wrote an article.

[00:09:42] I used to write a humor column in my local paper for almost a decade, and I was at a pool one day, the community pool, and I wrote what I thought was a rather humorous piece on tattoos because I was just all of a sudden aware of so many different tattoos. And that was one of the first times I got some negative. Feedback is in the form of letters to the editor that people saying that, Hey, Tony went too far on this because this tattoo means this to me, this tattoo means something else to me. And I remember going on a run around that time with a good friend in the area. I called him Pastor Nathan. And I remember just testing the water. I. Look back on that, and I was saying, hey, I got a lot of flak about this article I wrote about tattoos, what do you think? And he had talked about his son battling cancer as a child and that he had a particular scripture verse on his leg. And if I'm remembering this correctly, and so it was a real significant and I did what I did horrible role play earlier. Then I was like, Oh no, that's cool. I get that where I realized going into the article and going into that conversation, even I was testing the water to see, Hey, what does everybody think about this? Because here's my here's my opinion at this time.

[00:10:46] And so I was doing this form of gossip just to check in and see what other people thought. So at this point, now I buoy people. If you if you couldn't guess by the podcast I do, or the type of therapy that I do is, ma'am, please, you are the only version of you that is going through life the way you are. And so the significance of the things that you do are significant to you. So who on earth am I to tell you? Well, I don't think you should do that with your body or with your your job or where you should live, or what kind of car you drive. How again, I often say how adorable that I think I am. This all powerful being that can then convince you of what you need to do with your life or your body or your situation. Boy, I am not that powerful and I nor would I want to be, but I would love to tell me more. I would love to be curious because I want to hear your story, and I would love to probably express some of the things in my story as well. I wasn't going in this direction, and we'll get to the article that we're talking about today.

[00:11:43] But I got to speak at this leading Saints live event Saturday in Wolfsburg. Utah was a phenomenal event, and I will talk about that more down the road because there were some hilarious things there, but I got the air, everything out for over four hours. The recording will be available at some point through leading Saints Live or leading Saints dot org, I believe, but it was fascinating to talk about this. Everybody is their own version of themselves and I was in this room full of people that were coming from all different places in their life and different religious experiences and different family experiences and different experiences with mental health and you name it. And I love preaching authenticity, but there were times where I even found myself ready to talk big about a particular subject and still found myself it almost fifty two years old. And as a quote professional, I'm a professional. I'm doing the air quotes, but I'm a pro. I should know how to do all of these things, and it's still you find yourself wanting to test the water about, Well, what do you guys think? So we really want to just get to this place where we can say, Hey, let me take you on my train of thought, or here's what I think, and particularly in our relationships, that we want to find ourselves in relationships with people that feel safe, that we can say.

[00:12:50] Let me take you on my train of thought. Let me explore something. I'm going to get to the article now, but I get reviews. When people put reviews up on Apple Podcasts or some of the other platforms, there's this service that will send you the review, and somebody just gave me a really nice review. I think it was. It was four stars, five stars, something. But they said, love the content. But he takes a long time to get to the point and I just bless that person's heart. I'm grateful that they said, love the content they took the time to review, but I thought it was funny of how do they know what my this entire journey of in a podcast episode is? My point, but let's get to this article, though. So the article then says psychologists say gossiping is a social skill, and here's how to know if you're doing it right. And this is from an NBCNews.com article from their lifestyle section, and it's by a woman named Sarah Dagalo. So I'll probably just say, Sarah says, because I'm worried I've already butchered that last name. But she said the gossip is actually one of the societal forces that brings us together, and it helps maintain social order. And so I really do find this whole thing fascinating. So she started by saying, Hey, so your sister just gets a tattoo that's going to make your parents flip out or a coworker takes all the credit for a project that you both worked on and a meeting with your boss, or you find out that your friend's ex is cheating on his new partner.

[00:13:59] And these are all situations I probably dealt with in the last week or two and therapy. If you feel, if you if you think you'd feel the urge to share this type of news, if you heard it, you're probably right. She says that's because we're human beings and sharing information about one another is part of what we do. Explains Frank T. McAndrew, PhD, the Cornelia H. Dudley, professor of psychology at Knox College in Galesburg, Illinois. He says quote, Everybody gossips. It's pretty generally accepted among social scientists, or at least those who accept the theory of evolution. That gossip is likely a relic of our evolutionary past. Mcandrews tells NBC News. Better, in order to survive and pass along your genes, it is pretty much always been necessary to know about the lives of those around you who had powerful friends who was sleeping with whom, who had limited resources, or who might stab you in the back when times get tough. And just to comment or react to this article, I thought that was a really good way to frame that, that so many things in our lives are survival instincts or survival mechanisms. I talk about speaking in Utah over the weekend.

[00:15:04] I came right back home and then spoke to a group Sunday night just talking about mental health in general, and I was talking about the concept of anxiety and anxiety. Is our brain trying to look out for us and thinks it's. Doing us a favor by putting us on high alert so that we will be aware that we may turn a corner and there may be a saber tooth tiger, although now it's not saber tooth tigers, but we may turn a corner and find someone who we may not be able to trust. Or we might see the world in a way that is scary. And so we're coming up. Our brain is coming up with all these thoughts around what if? What if I get terminal illness? What if I? What if I'm late to work tomorrow? What if I don't do well on my driver's test or any of those things? So our brains thinking it's doing us a favor. But in reality, we're thinking so much about things that may are most likely won't ever happen. So gossip has evolved from that same thing that if we needed to know who was had a plot to overthrow the king, then we might want to stay away from them. Because when the coup occurs, we want to be on the side of whoever we think that is the most likely to survive. But Sarah says that knowledge has helped people get ahead socially and people who are not interested in it, meaning gossip.

[00:16:15] At some points in the history, we're at a disadvantage. Mcandrew says that they were not good at attracting and keeping mates or maintaining alliances, the ones who weren't interested in the goings on of other people. They sort of got weeded out. So you take that. The urge to share this juicy piece of news when you hear it is part of who we are and it's a natural characteristic of this species that we've come. So I go back to this horrific example that I did at the beginning of this role play. And when we want to share information, oftentimes I feel like what we're doing is checking in to see if we are around people that we feel quote safe with. That might sound dramatic, but we want to know if I'm talking to somebody about infidelity. I want to know, Hey, are we on the same page with that? Or if that person says, Oh yeah, everybody is going to cheat at some point, then I feel like, Oh, I don't want to. I don't want to hang out with that person because I have a different opinion. So this gossip really is trying to figure out who who we feel safe with, or it's also a survival mechanism to try to understand the goings on of other people, maybe in your community or in your tribe, so to speak.

[00:17:20] So we tend to think of gossip as a negative behavior, and I have I've thought about that often. It's funny when I would talk about gossip in the terms of a couple's relationship. I would say often that if you are gossiping to have a shared experience, sometimes if people don't feel like they even know what to talk about and then they have a shared experience of talking about someone else, then if it is done so in a way of, Hey boy, what do you think about that? That's crazy. Then I feel like that could be a helpful thing. If it's done in the man, that person's a horrible person, then even if we're having a shared experience around that, I don't know if I necessarily like that energy. So again, Sarah says, we tend to think of gossip as a negative behavior when, for instance, we tattle on somebody or share information behind someone else's back that may show them in a bad light. But this researcher, McAndrew says, but it's really says by definition at least the definition of social scientists who study gossip. Use gossip is any talk about someone who isn't present, and it's usually about something that we can make a moral judgment about, meaning you tend to approve of the information or you disapprove of the information. So in one sense, we are sharing gossip in order to determine if we are on the same page morally and because if we are in a completely different space in regards to our morality, then we may not feel like that person is safe for us.

[00:18:37] Another version of gossip is that it can be entertaining, meaning it doesn't feel like work to do it, so you tend to want to share or hear the information, McAndrew explains. So it's not inherently bad, and it can play an important role in keeping our society connected. So he goes on to say gossiping isn't necessarily a bad thing. It depends on the context. So here's where the research comes in. In a study published earlier this year in the Journal of Social, Psychological and Personality Science. Four hundred and sixty seven adults were electronic readers over the course of two to five days, which collected samples of their verbal conversations over that time period. I'm curious if you feel like you would be up for something like that, and this is one of those fascinating things about research and studies is that I do wonder if people that were wearing this electronic recorder over the course of two to five days would be less or more likely to gossip, depending on their attachment, style and a sense of how they get validation. Do they want to show the researchers that, oh no, I don't gossip and hoping that they will get some attaboys boys? Or if they're saying, Man, if I'm going to do this research, I'm going to, I'm going to go overboard.

[00:19:38] I'm going to gossip like nobody's business. So then they will say, Man, you're good at gossiping. So that's a whole other piece of data that we could look at down the road. But McKenna says the researchers listen to the sound files of the totality of those conversations and anything that they classified as gossip. And you talk about other people who weren't part of the conversation was coded as either positive, negative or neutral, according to a standardized scale. And again, I'm not trying to debunk research or that sort of thing because I think we need data to work with. But oftentimes you really can see where some holes and even the collection of data could be in that one sentence, we just talked about anything classified as gossip. Was quoted is either positive, negative or neutral, according to a standardized scale. It'll be fascinating to know what that standardized scale was and then the person who is listening depending on their own experiences. I wonder if there were things where they feel like this isn't really negative or this is more neutral where someone else might say, no, that's definitely negative and something else might feel positive. Anyway, I digress there a little bit. But he says it's just social information and we learn a lot about the social world around us when we gossip. So the data showed that nearly everybody in the study gossip, so only thirty four individuals out of the four hundred and sixty seven did not gossip at all, and most gossip was coded as neither positive or negative.

[00:20:55] The majority of gossip reported in the study. Seventy five percent of it was neutral. Now, if you are wondering if there is a great divide on men and women, women engaged in more neutral gossip than men. But the amount of negative and positive gossip shared among men and women was fairly consistent, and overall people who were more extroverted tended to gossip more than those who were introverted. So I'm guessing that's probably not a big surprise. But the data is limited and that it only looked at one group of individuals. But what was found in the sample backs up what McAndrew and others have found when they've studied gossip that it's about communicating information about the world we live in and most of us do it, explains lead study author Megan Robbins, who's an assistant professor of psychology at the University of California Riverside. She said It's just social information, and we learn a lot about the social world around us when we gossip. So back to this article. Sarah says what makes gossip good, bad or neutral is how we use that information. Mcandrews goes on to say it's not about the content of the news itself, it's how we use that information. He says that gossiping is a social skill.

[00:21:56] So what makes a good gossiper? We are going to talk about that right after this break. So vulnerability time, I am often asked, does my podcast make money? And the answer is it does at times. And one of the ways that it does is through advertisements and the one that helps the most people. I believe by far is when I talk about Betterhelp.com. Yet I can go an entire month, as I just did without mentioning Betterhelp.com. So if you are looking for counseling therapy, if you're looking for a licensed therapist in your area and are struggling with that, if or if you would even prefer telehealth if you want online therapy, if you want phone therapy, if you want video therapy, then reach out through Betterhelp.com virtual couch, you'll get 10 percent off your first month's treatments. Their intake process is incredible. They ask all the right questions and they get you to somebody that is a licensed professional counselor, licensed marriage and family therapist, a licensed professional that is in your that can meet you where you're at, that can talk about anxiety, depression. They can use a variety of different therapeutic techniques. But overall, go take care of your mental health. You, you are definitely worth it. So if you're struggling to find somebody that can help you or if you just feel like the world of online therapy might be the easiest approach, then go to Betterhelp.com virtual couch and get 10 percent off your first month's treatment.

[00:23:15] Again, that is Betterhelp.com virtual couch. They've helped over a million people and you could be talking to somebody in up to 48 hours. And last but not least, go to totally over magnetic and find out more about my upcoming magnetic marriage course. We're about to launch round three and it is a phenomenal course. I talk about it so much that I feel like I'll just leave it there. All right, let's get back to the article. Let's get back to this concept about gossip. So where we left off gossiping as a social skill, what makes a good gossiper a good gossiper is somebody who people trust with information, somebody who uses that information in a responsible way. When you find out the person that your friend has a crush on has a bad reputation for cheating, and you let your friend know not to hurt your friend, but as a warning. Or if you find out that somebody in your company is not a team player and you let other coworkers know so that they can try to avoid working with that colleague. That's where people feel in general that that can where gossip can be a good thing. And it's interesting because people may not even view that as gossip. They might view it as just sharing information. But I like that social psychologist definition of gossip, meaning that it is anything where you were talking about somebody who isn't present.

[00:24:22] But the key is that you're sharing information in an appropriate way that is helping others. Sarah goes on to say a bad gossip or, on the other hand, is somebody who shares information about others in order to get ahead or to get an advantage themselves, or just they share things just recklessly. Others don't tend to trust quote bad gossipers with information when they have it. If you can't, she says, if you can't keep your mouth shut that your friend's marriage is on the fritz, you let your entire circle of friends know about how another friend did poorly on an exam than in those scenarios. Are you speaking more about your ability to be trusted versus, Hey, I'm sharing this information because I'm worried or I'm just hoping to protect or look out for somebody. And science has shown that gossip can be a source for good, and it can actually help maintain social order. The research has shown that a lot of gossip has both positive effects and moral motivations, explains Rob Weiler, professor of sociology and director of the Polarization and. Social change laboratory at Stanford University, who studies the social forces that bring us together and drive us against one another, including gossip. So studies from his group have shown that the more generous and moral among us are most likely to pass along rumors about untrustworthy people, and they report doing so because they are concerned about helping others or the general good.

[00:25:35] They call this type of gossip pro-social gossip because it serves to warn others, which has the effect of lowering overall exploitation in groups, Wheeler says. A lot of gossip is driven by concern for others, and it has positive social effects, he says. Work from his group has also found that engaging in gossip can actually temper some of our frustrations and other negative emotions when we feel that we find out someone has behaved in a deviant way. So the example he gives as if a coworker unfairly gets a promotion, even though the friend that you meet for lunch after this happens has never met that coworker. You still tell that friend all the reasons your colleague didn't deserve the new position. And I think in my world that can be venting, that can be just getting something off your chest. And I think one of the keys there is when you find somebody that will just listen and say, Tell me more. That must be hard, but not say or try to fix or say, yeah, you need to realize or. But what you don't understand is because that that just builds up that psychological reactants or that instant negative reaction more. We're being told what to do, even if we're being told to get over it or not worry about it than our brain says.

[00:26:35] I will not stop worrying about it and I will not get over it. So just having somebody there that you can express things to somebody that you can get things out of your mind and just share your train of thought can be so powerful. And his team has also found that gossip is actually one of the forces that promotes cooperation among groups to experiments his team has done suggested the threat of being gossiped about deters untrustworthy behavior. Once people have been gossiped about for behaving in an untrustworthy way, they tend to reform their behavior, and gossip helps people know who to avoid and not trust. So together, the evidence suggests that gossip may play an important role in maintaining social order, Wheeler says. But spreading rumors about people who have quote Behave Badly allows our friends and our acquaintances to, in theory, know who to trust, and that threat of gossip can deter bad behavior in the first place. As people seek to avoid developing a bad reputation, yes, you can get better at gossiping for good. But here's how to make sure that your gossip going to responsible, trustworthy way. Think twice before you do it. Whether you're gossiping in a responsible way or not is all a matter of when you're doing it and with whom you're sharing the information, McAndrew says. Are you stabbing somebody in the back by telling that story? Is that news going to stop something bad from happening? The second one, I think, is so important.

[00:27:46] Don't gossip for personal gain. If you're doing it for your own personal gain, don't, Willer says it's probably not going to do anybody any favors. The form of gossip that we found beneficial is negative gossip about people who have behaved in an antisocial way, Wheeler says. And the third one is don't distort information, tell it like it is. Lead the exaggerations at the door. Wheeler says people often exaggerate what they pass on to make a better or more coherent story, or to justify why they're speaking about someone. And I think that part is so key that people are trying to justify why they're speaking about someone, he says. That's not a responsible way of sharing information. Gossip doesn't do a lot of good if it's informational content is unreliable. So if we go to the what have we learned today, there is a human need to share experiences and to share information. And if someone is not around that we are doing it, then technically that is by definition, by social psychologists definition. That is gossip. And there are situations where that has been something through the years that will is done to keep us safe. But I worry at times that it is just a way to then put you in a one up position over someone else without really knowing what the details or the facts are and somebody else's situation.

[00:28:54] So if and I think this is almost part of the thing I love talking about of acceptance, that if we accept the fact that we are people who gossip by nature, that acceptance doesn't mean apathy. It doesn't mean that, OK, well, know, hey, we all do it. So it doesn't matter what I say. I'm just I'm just gossiping. I'm just being human. No. If we accept the fact that we do gossip, then can we gossip responsibly? Can we gossip in a way that is saying, Hey, I'm just sharing this information as a way of warning or is a shared experience, but not as a way to then gang up on someone or to put someone in a one down position or to put yourself in a one up position? Because in that scenario, now we're digging into gossip as a way of wanting to be validated or wanting to get our needs met. When in reality, that whole concept of looking for external validation. Somebody to validate me to help me. Help me feel like I'm OK. And that stuff there. There we go. We're digging back into our childhood. We need to get to this place that we are mature adults, mature human beings that can take ownership of our own experiences or our own thoughts and emotions. And so we're quite welcome to share them with other people. But we need to make room for the fact that other people have different experiences as well.

[00:30:01] And when we hear of someone else's experience, even if it is not something that we have gone through, or if it even invalidates what our thoughts are about, something that's OK. And that's often that place where we need to learn to sit with a little bit of that discomfort not going to this place where we feel. We have to defend ourselves, or we have to break down the other person's what their reality is because that's the point where then we all start to go back into our bunkers and fire shots and we look for just those, only those who agree with us and we can find ourselves falling into this little echo chamber of, nope, I'm right, and I will only surround myself by the people who agree with me. Because man that that can be that can be a dangerous place to be. So take a look at the way that you communicate. And again, if we own up to the fact that we all gossip, can we do it in a more productive way, in a more in a way that psychologists say is a social skill and to know that there are ways to do that right and in ways that are not so helpful? All right. This is the part of the show where I'm rambling, so I hope that you all have an amazing week.

[00:30:59] Coming up now is the amazing the talented Aurora Florence with her song It's wonderful. We'll see you next time.

[00:31:06] Compressed emotions flying. Starting out the other end, the pressures of the daily grind, it's wonderful. And plastic waste and rubber ghost are floating past the midnight hour. They push aside the things that