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EP 245 Marriage with Preston Pugmire-2021-01-26
[00:00:00] Hey, everybody, welcome to Episode two hundred and forty five of the virtual couch. I am your host, Tony Overbay. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified mine will have a coach. All of those things that I talk about in previous episodes are still there. They're still in effect. But let's get right to today's episode. And yes, please follow me on Instagram and Facebook and all the places and subscribe and like and share and review and do all the things that would be amazing. But today's episode is a little bit different, which is why I want to get right to it. If you've been listening to any of my episodes over the last few months, you have no doubt heard me talk a ton about my upcoming magnetic marriage course that I put together with my friend and accomplished podcast for himself in a very well known, successful, positive, upbeat life coach named Preston Puglia. He is host of The Next Level Life podcast. And this is the first time that Preston and I have recorded a podcast together. But we have spent hundreds. And that is that is no exaggeration, hundreds of hours together over the past several months, creating the magnetic marriage course.
[00:01:00] And this is my first foray into creating a major course. I have the free parenting course that I firmly stand behind. But admittedly, I went into that the first weekend that the pandemic shut the world down. I just want to give people some hope with regard to parenting. I knew that they were going to be shut in with all of their kids for I mean, now we're going to probably hit a year before we know it. But it's informational, the solid, but it's non-magnetic marriage course, I will tell you that. And I could not have done this course without precedent. He helps people create courses, but a lot, of course, of successful courses. And he went all in on this course, not just helping me create the course, but Preston and I created this course. And there is honestly the perfect mix of what I feel is is my therapist clinical. A thousand couples later in the chair, experience with Prestons, get stuff done. You need structure, you need homework, accountability, how to create courses, how to run successful courses, all of that. So I wanted to create something like this literally years ago and I had tried to do so, but I know that it would not be a fraction of what this course offers had I tried to do this on my own.
[00:02:08] And I should just stop here right now and go right to the interview because we cover so much about what the course will do for your marriage. But let me just say that the timing of this episode is not purely by chance. The course is getting ready to launch soon. And at the end of the episode, there are some very exciting, very specific details that you will want to pay attention to and take action on. And I'm going to leave it there. But taking action on them. So I would I would listen to this episode. And then if you if you like what you hear, which I feel like you will, then there's there are some things to do to take action. So the video this episode is available on the virtual couch YouTube channel, and you'll find a link to the in the show notes. And I truly would appreciate you liking and subscribing on that YouTube channel for sure. But without any further ado, let me get to this interview with Preston Buckmeier, host of The Next Level Life podcast, cocreator of The Magnetic Marriage Course.
[00:03:12] Come on now, we're both just laughing hilariously because this has been a long time in the making. Preston Hagmaier, welcome to the virtual couch. Oh, man, thank you so much. Feels good to be here. I've been waiting for this moment for so long. I thought about you often so much that I just assume all of my listeners already know who you are, because I've been talking about the magnetic marriage course for months now because as you well know, I feel like we we have I don't know, we solved some riddles and puzzles here. We do. We cracked the code.
[00:03:42] Man let's get into it. We have. We have. And I want to tell you, I even asked Preston if he's going to be OK if I throw the video of this as well up on my virtual couch YouTube channel. But I want you just to go go there just to gaze at how amazing Prestons video setup is, because he has taught me much, literally. And I want to give you credit for this, Preston, even the background now. I have a couch. I have a plant. Thanks to Preston. I have a wall. I don't know if I can remember this. It says something cool under flat matte finish with cool undertones.
[00:04:13] So it's great, great information for somebody who cannot see us right now.
[00:04:19] That's OK. There's my way of saying, oh, wow, he has a YouTube channel. I'll go sign up so then I can be a YouTube star. And then finally the teenagers will take me seriously who don't listen to a podcast so.
[00:04:28] Well, teenagers are not the target demographic for this episode, talking about couples who are married and how good this guy is. Yeah. So I'm excited to be here. It's like the thing that I want to share with people is there's hope, like for reals. This is the thing that is so amazing about Tony Overbay. Like I heard his podcast, I didn't know him from Adam and I heard his podcast and he was talking about these amazing principles. And I was like, I got to get more of this. And so I messaged him and became a client of his like a year ago and started out as a client. And he was telling me stuff about my marriage. With what it's called a F.T., which is just a modality, the blah, blah, stuff like that, but bottom line is I was like, I want to have a more connected, thriving, passionate, like, emotionally exciting marriage. And this is how I feel. I feel like divorce is not the worst option. I feel like being married in a situation where you feel like you're just roommates and running a daycare with somebody you used to date. I think that that is the worst case scenario where you just kind of like not just tolerating each other, but just like living together is like, OK, we're friends and we're doing this and it's great and stuff. And occasionally we'll have sex. But like, it's not there's no like drawing connection and passion in the actual relationship. And that's the thing that shifts it from a friendship to a marriage.
[00:06:11] And I feel like people are just waiting well to get better at some point, better when the kids are a little older and I'll get a cool car or maybe after I run this marathon or maybe the right, just kick the can down the road for me.
[00:06:25] I would think that, like, OK, maybe it'll get better when I start exercising and I look better or when I make more money or when love it or a lot of it was when she changes her attitude or when she finally goes, when she finally goes to this seminar, takes this course with me or like and I've said stuff, I've said all this to her and I feel really foolish about it now.
[00:06:45] But I was in a real space of blaming her. And we weren't we didn't have a terrible marriage. We just had a regular one. And it was great and it was fine. And but it wasn't what either of us really wanted, because, like I said, you're not in that relationship just to be friends and just to run the household together.
[00:07:07] I love that you shared that. I appreciate your vulnerability there that. Yeah. When you reached out, it was funny because I had this experience where I was on the podcast with Jennifer Finless and five, and she said, what did I tell you this before? And you said, wait, that was pressed. Buckmeier and I first of all, how dare you on my podcast talk about this person, Pugliesi immediately Googled you. So I was aware of Presson. So when he reached out, I like this guy admits some of your podcasts as well. And what I really loved and I know we can go back to some of the things that you were sharing earlier, too, but I felt like I could put out all this F.T. material and I would get a tremendous amount of feedback and I could do it in my office with clients. And the feedback would be, man, that that sounds so good. That feels right now. What and then I would say, well, you just start you start doing it, you start practicing it. And then what was that like for you? Would have you'd be like, OK, that makes so much sense. Now what do I do? And I'm like, I know, right? Like, you start doing it and then tell me how goes what. Well I have for you.
[00:08:02] Well, for me it was frustrating because I couldn't figure out how to implement it. I was like, okay, I'm talking to him and was good and stuff. And then I was like, oh yeah, I understand it. And then when it comes time to actually. Implement in my house, it's like I feel like I'm a little bit lost with this and so I felt a little bit foolish and so I was like, bro, we got to help me, help you, help me. Kind of like what? I would like to create a specific like literals script. Like I want to script. What do I say? What do I not say? How do I say it? What are some things that I can specifically do? Because until you are an expert and you have a lot of practice, it's you need to be able to have a specific kind of recipe, so to speak. If you're an experienced baker, then you can just pull the stuff out of the cupboards and just to make something amazing. But if it's if you're relatively new at it, you're constantly going back to the recipe book and checking it and hope this comes before this this amount of this. And you're looking at the book and it doesn't make you stupid.
[00:09:10] It makes you actually smart because it's what I love about it. Oh, well, I you say that in this way.
[00:09:14] I thought again, the way the how the fate's aligned and that whole Jennifer mentioning your name, me googling you, you're looking at me, me knowing that you have a podcast that you create courses. You've done this before. I honestly because I've had people push back before and say, tell me what to do, give me a worksheet or whatever. And there really aren't any out there for F.T. which we found out.
[00:09:35] I mean. Oh, and so I really felt like I honestly, I'm so used to people saying that me to say, look and remember these cheesy phrases, trust the process, Presson and it's about flow and you just have to put it into action, says the person who and I remember when we were in your office, we were doing the recording. And you remember when I said, person, all it takes is fifteen years of being a therapist practicing this and seven years of mindfulness and it flows. And you stopped and you went and you wrote it down. And I need to find that picture. You're like, oh, is that all it takes. Oh ok. OK, so yeah, I don't need a worksheet, I don't need a script.
[00:10:08] Right. I don't need to work. All I need is fifteen years of experience and a degree in psychology. That's right.
[00:10:14] That's all I need. So that's how I appreciated what you brought to the table. And I remember the first time you said, hey, just do me a favor and write it out for me. And man, I almost feel like I should share that Google document at some point because it was a it was a train wreck. And I was nervous about it because I don't think I confess this to you first. And this is why our course is so amazing, is that I thought, man, I've got all this knowledge. But Preston, he's going to get it done. And I know if I shared that with you, but I thought if I don't do this right now, then Preston is going to create his own course and he doesn't know F.T. And I can help. And he's cool and I better do this. And I create this just crud document. And there was the beginnings of a beautiful friendship.
[00:10:54] I agree, man. So this is why it works really well, because there's some things that people are doing with well-intentioned but incorrectly, incorrectly. And as a result, they are not getting the results that they want, which is a thriving, connected, passionate marriage where they feel like excited and. When you when you don't know exactly how to do this, you can end up trying things the wrong way and then just kind of given up. And so the things that people are doing wrong are like the number one thing that people are doing wrong is waiting for their spouse to change. Yeah. So right now, if you're listening to this and you're like, dude, I want to if you have ever thought if she would do this better or if he would do this differently, we would be doing better as a couple. Yeah. Right there. It's such a seductive thought. It really is. We can get lured into this energy of the other person needs to do something in order for this to change. But I'll tell you this, even if it's true. Because it might be even if it's true, it is not the answer to your problems, that's a hard pill to swallow.
[00:12:14] It is. And I remember even when we sat down, I think we were recording one of the first modules. And you I don't remember how you phrased it, but it was I don't even take this course with you. Say Elbow.
[00:12:24] What was it? It's called Don't Listen with your elbows. So think about it. This is obviously a pre covid reference, but you've all been there, right? You're like sitting in an audience with somebody listening to somebody talk. So pretend that you're there with your spouse and you're listening to some cancer. Tony Prestons, somebody else up on the stage revealing the secrets of the universe as it relates to a relationship. And you hear something and you're like, oh, my gosh, that is perfect for them to implement. That is perfect for them to do. And so you just kind of nudge them with your elbow. You're like, hey, hey, hey, hey, did you hear that? Hey, hey, hey, dude, check that out.
[00:13:02] That was a really good and it comes off as hidden agendas man, which is one of the other things that we're going to talk about. But like when you listen with your elbows to life or to any feedback or to anything and you say, I'm going to wait for them to change, because when they change, I'll be happier. And what you have done is you have immediately sealed your fate. Because very rarely are they going to have the flash of light that you want them to have while you're sitting there with the energy of you needed to change. You need a change. You need a change. You need change.
[00:13:41] That's just what I love. And death now in the court.
[00:13:44] And what you've helped, I feel like help me with is I would have that phrase of, OK, you both go running into your bunkers. Now, one of you needs to come out first. And I feel like what we're doing now in this course is saying, OK, and literally here is how you come out of the bunker first. Here's the things that you say. And that is the part where I did I pushed against that press then, you know, I did because I felt like it needs to just be flow. It needs to just work. And that's what I feel like. That's part of this. We've cracked the code. We've solved the riddle.
[00:14:11] Yeah, well, this thing is I would ask you how and what we've done is through months and months and months of work and back and forth and two full weekends together, you and I have come up with specific steps like this is how you get back on track. These are the things to do. These are the things to say. These are the things to not say. Here's what you can lean into energetically. Here's what you can lean into physically. Here's what you can lean into verbally. And I used to just say, OK, cool, that's a great principle.
[00:14:46] How and with the magnetic marriage course, I feel like we've created a system of there. It's a two part system and there are subsections of each part, but there's connected conversation scripts and then energetic, like energetic alignment. And we'll talk about that in just a moment, what those mean. But when you can get those two pieces of the puzzle really together, just like a magnet, you create the attraction and then it is drawn together. If you want to be in a relationship with somebody where both of you, not just one of you, is really drawn to the other person, emotionally, energetically, spiritually, physically, if you want to be really drawn to them and them drawn to you, then these are the things that you get to do and say and not do and not say. And it is a it is a formula. And it's something that we have outlined over the last year. And I've worked with several clients in my coaching groups. And then you work with several clients in your office as a therapist, and we come at it from a coaching perspective and then in clinical scientific based therapy perspective and the two, just when they marry themselves together so well, those to apply to.
[00:16:06] And that's what I did. And I that's again, had it not been I know it's going to sound a tiny bit at times like a love fest, but that was the part where if it hadn't have been Preston and we did, we never we were so respectful and wonderfully lovely, lovable what we were having these conversations. But I felt I would say to Preston president, OK, I trust you. I want you to just push hard against these things that I think make perfect sense or are reasons why I feel like we wouldn't need to have this script or module or whatever and man and we had to give and take there. And you're absolutely right. I would sometimes text you after we get out of a session and say I was a bit more prescriptive or I gave this exercise or and it works. It works so well. And so I really do appreciate now that mix of coaching and then the the therapy. I really feel like that's something that is not out there. It really isn't.
[00:16:55] And it works so well because what I did is you would present a principle and I would. Yeah, but it to death I would be neba from a space of love like it was something where it was, it was like the scientific process. OK, let's explore this. It's kind of like I in it to if somebody creates a security system for their building and then they hire somebody to break into that building and then the person finds, they find a weakness in the security system on purpose, in a controlled environment so that they can bulk up and that's that section and make the security system more robust.
[00:17:33] And then they hire them to try to break in again. And then they find another way. And after five ways of breaking in, then they get to the point where I can't break in anymore. And I know the system really well. So what we have done is I. Yeah, but yeah but yeah but and with my marketing my and my coaching mind and in your therapy mind and your like, your clinical experience and all those things, we created a system that really is the most robust version of the quote unquote security system of the marriage.
[00:18:03] And so it really is amazing. It is an even we were talking about script, even if you feel like I shouldn't need a script, OK, we'll note that.
[00:18:14] But here is the script and it works. And I feel like there are a lot of those when we shouldn't need a script or or he shouldn't be to have to be told what to say or. You know what? We're we're kind of. And with those, how have those gotten us so far where those gotten you and I love that we would have those moments right where it would be. OK, I will note that this may be difficult. This will note that this might be unfair. So, anyway, back to the script right back.
[00:18:39] So I would say stuff that Tony, I'll tell you about this. And there were times when he just said that, OK, what do you want, Preston? Because the thing that you are doing right now isn't giving you the results that you want in your life. So you can keep doing that.
[00:18:57] Yeah, I tried to get a tiny bit frustrated and it grew into a tremendous amount of love or be like and I hear you and we'll note that and but you know, this I this I know this works. This formula, this script, this where I would do the whole thousand couples later, blah, blah, blah. But how did that feel when you hear that it didn't feel like, oh OK, then all my problems are solved.
[00:19:23] No, what what it took from me is to finally really trust. And so after there came a time where I I stopped pushing and pushing and. Yeah, but yeah, but because I was like, oh, oh, I don't need to do that anymore because we actually figured this, that this out. And sometimes the answer is, well you get to do it for the next three to six months. Yeah. And it's not going to work immediately. Nothing is. So if you do these things one like one time, if you have a very connected conversation using the script, if you do that one time and your marriage doesn't immediately turn around, that's the equivalent of lifting weights one time and getting frustrated that you don't have a six pack or you haven't lost ten pounds like on day one. And so just when we say trust a process like it is a process and it doesn't happen overnight. But I'll tell you what doesn't work is the things that you're currently doing. So, yeah, you got to do this to try something different. So the first people are going, yeah, you know, you go, I was going do the same thing.
[00:20:37] First thing people are doing, you go.
[00:20:38] First thing people are doing wrong is they're waiting for their spouse to change. So the antidote to that is that you get to actually lead and it doesn't matter if you're the husband or the wife. It takes one of you to actually lead and you have to come out of the gate or come out of your bunker, so to speak, to come out of your bunker with accountability. That's hard and straight up. It is vulnerable and it is hard, but it is the way to take control of your own emotions. That accountability module. You go on, go, go, go. If you want to. If you want to have control over your own emotions, then we teach the four steps of accountability inside the magnetic marriage course and we teach the we teach you specifically how to reframe the story that is running on loop inside your head, reframe that story in a way that is useful to you and actually gets you to where you want to go.
[00:21:41] Because if you basically if you are sitting there blaming and blaming and blaming somebody else and you're sitting there being in victimhood, energy, it's like dropping an anchor in in the ocean and then turning the motor on on your boat. And it's going in a circle around the anchor and then getting frustrated that you're not making it to shore.
[00:22:03] Yeah, you're like and I was going to say.
[00:22:06] No, I apologize for some of that, I don't remember when we did that accountability module, you said, hey, I want you to come up with something real and let's do it live. And the thing that we processed for me, I, I was holding on to a lot of emotion. I've never talked about it on a podcast. I just it was something I've been carrying with me for a long time. And I was I again, I don't know if I shared this much with you. I was very skeptical that it was going to be and I'm not trying to make it sound like it was the easiest thing in the world, but it was shockingly easy when you laid out I remember this, the two sides of this board, I won't give away more, but the way that we laid out the energy that I was putting out and who I really wanted to be and how that story fit into each one of those sides of this board, I'm probably not making any sense.
[00:22:50] But trust me, I feel like that module alone for me personally was a game changer.
[00:22:56] Thank you. It was for me as well when I had my mentor teach it to me. So what are you talking about? There's two sides of the board and there's basically there's a victimhood energy. I'm not talking about being like an actual victim, like victimhood, energy versus conscious creative energy, where you're actually moving forward and allowing yourself to take control of your own situation and focusing on what you can control and. Bottom line is. We will teach you how to reframe any story in your entire life that you could tell inside your head or to your friends or to your therapist any story that you could tell the ends with. Can you believe it or I don't know what to do or anything like that. You can reframe any story with these four very, very specific and simple steps so that you can take control of your emotions and create. The emotional situation with another person that you want to have, and I I use it every single day, every single day in my work and with my parenting, with my spouse, with my friends, with my finances, like every single day. The four steps of accountability. It's absolutely a game changer. Yeah.
[00:24:13] So the second thing that people do that we were really noticing is that they really they didn't rely on this concept of just simply reflective listening. I feel like that is something that every as a therapist and grad school, you learn that I feel like most just self-help books is preach. This is a good time to talk, I'm sure. And now one of the people displaced as well may be saying, I really think that you're mean and that you never listen to me and you don't appreciate me. And then the wife is OK. Reflective listening. I'm hearing that you think I mean, I'm hearing that you think I don't support you and then they're saying, OK, that's well done. So that sounds like you heard him. And then you have the other side do that. And then it's like the therapist or the book or the whatever sits back and says, hey, now you've heard each other, now work it out. And I feel like that is this underlying model and method that is in so many communication or marriage seminars. And that's the thing that I was shocked even to see that there wasn't something that was as I just had the tools of no, you can't just listen to each other.
[00:25:16] You have to be able to express yourself. You have to be able to listen empathetically. You have to not be going to the. Yeah, but you can't go into victimhood. You can't just tell this person that is a bunch of crap. I don't believe you. And which is all the things that can come from just purely empathetic or reflective listening.
[00:25:34] You make that sound pretty. Presson So it's beautiful. Beautiful. So what happens is people that put their guards up and then they run everything through a filter. This is what I think that they're saying. And so if you say, oh, this is what I'm hearing you say and then you say it, it's an easy way to just regurgitate the actual words that they're saying without getting into the energy. I'm huge on the energy. Think about I mean, literally, my friends put up on her Instagram yesterday. It was so funny, her and her husband, it was called they did this thing called arguing with compliments. And it was meant to be a joke. But, dude, we should use it. We should use it. It's so good because it's it's them sitting there like the video and there's next to each other in the kitchen. And he turns to her and he goes, you know what?
[00:26:27] Oh, you're so good at being a mom. I can't believe it. And you're so sexy. And I oh, I'm so glad I married you. And she turns to him and she goes, are we are we doing this right now in front of the kids? Are you kidding me? Because when you come home and tell me that my hair looks good, it makes me want to kiss and I just can't believe it. And then I see you and I see your muscles and it just it turns me on and then I watch you with the kids and it just makes me so happy. And they're just arguing with compliments to be a joke.
[00:27:01] But it's the energy of things is so important. And you can sit there and you can be like, man, you know what, you really are the worst. Like, I just every time talk, I just feel like just a little bit of gagging in my throat. And I just I just really don't like looking at you and being around you.
[00:27:24] And so it's the tone of voice. It's the energy. It's not just the words. And when you combine the two and when they are in alignment, then it creates a situation where you can actually have a connection. So I talk about that just briefly to say what we've created is a script. It's a it's the connected conversation script. And in this, when you have the correct energy and correct motivations behind it, then you what I asked you, what do I say? And then you say here is exactly what you say, and it's like a template. You plug in the things that relate to you and then there's a speaker and then there's a listener and there's specific questions that you can ask.
[00:28:11] And when I've done this with my wife, oh my gosh, I've learned of been married to it for 12 years and I've learned so much about her and her motivations and her just the things that that drive her, the things that light her up, the things that shut her down in every aspect and her reasonings for things and just how she thinks like her world view when I've learned more about her world view, helps me understand her. And I really love her and appreciate more. And also, it allows me to show up in such a way where I know that I'm delighting her and I love to love to deliver because I really everybody wants to matter.
[00:28:47] Everybody everyone's the care. They want to be heard. They want to matter. And I had a I was. With a couple just just yesterday, and I get this one often where the person says, OK, but what if you already know all of those things and I think bless your heart, you don't. The reason that you think you do is because we don't without this script, we most likely probably shut that conversation down enough where the person giving the information at some point, it's like, yep, you got it all figured out, right?
[00:29:13] That's exactly how I feel. And so they don't feel safe enough to just open and share. And the script literally lays out how to do it, what to say. And it is a safe way to just tell me more. Tell me how long you've thought that way. Where does that come from? What's that like for you instead of the. No, I've heard that already. I already know. Well, how do you think that affects me? All those things are gone.
[00:29:34] They are. And one of the things is because we've created something called the four pillars, and they are foundational. The foundational principles that it's the pillars. Think about a pillar of that, like a platform is built on like that. It's everything relies on these four pillars. Maybe we should have led with this, but straight up these four pillars, when you use them and when you actually follow them, then it creates a situation where. You can't help but be more connected after the conversation is over. So when you ask the questions and when you answer the questions and you use these, we call them empathy statements and also land, when you don't use the landline statements, then what happens is you end up being connected. So the four pillars are we'll just go first.
[00:30:21] Let me tell you, this is where as we're going through and I think we were talking a little bit before on one of our calls a week or so ago and planning. So I did a quick version of, hey, here are these four pillars. I gave a couple of examples. And I think I was telling you, I don't think I've ever received more feedback from people that literally just saying give me a handout or something so I can fix my whole marriage. And that's the part where I say, bless your heart. I wish it was that easy. But the four pillars are an old principle. You do. And with these four pillars of it, we're going to talk about, we also within the course and I thought this was significant when I have people in my office and maybe it's that they're paying for it, I lay out these pillars in my office and and it feels right. And then they want to jump right up to the OK, we talk about sex, parenting, politics, finances and religion, please, because these are the and you realize, oh, we've got a lot of emotional baggage that we're carrying with us. We're going to lay out these pillars. But I want you to think in terms of because you're immediately going to say, OK, then we can finally have this conversation about whatever these highly charged topics and press. And I thought, well, OK, slow down. When we've got low charge, we've got four levels of these charged topics. And what's fascinating is you can do a warm up exercise in a therapy session where you say, hey, give me your thoughts about where you always wanted to retire. And all of a sudden somebody says the beach and the husband says, seriously, like you hate sand, you never even use sunscreen. And it's, oh, if we can't even have a conversation about this thing that is not for years, that is just just supposed to be kinda laid back on the grass and tell me more thing. And we certainly can't dove right into the highly charged topic. So lay out these four pillars and let's talk about this.
[00:31:56] The first one is assume good intentions.
[00:32:00] And it sounds cool. Like why say can you go through what these are like? Is as I was laying these out with you and I want to know what was their initial feedback or thoughts or reaction or that sort of thing.
[00:32:11] So assuming good intentions so that one of the things that's interesting is when I was in. Yeah, but mode, I would say what if they're what if they don't have good intentions and.
[00:32:29] It's really an interesting place to be, because if you're operating from this, you're operating from this place of my spouse is trying to hurt me right then. Then you're that then that's maybe not this course. It's just not this course. So that's where you deserve to actually have a real assistance. What I mean is like just different assistance, as this course is for people who are ready to move forward or they're in a stagnant place or they're just like arguing like you're on the brink of divorce and you're at each other's throats as might not be the best way for you to start. Right. Like, go work with a professional.
[00:33:09] So let me tell you, this is what I love about this. And that's why I love the coaching piece and the therapy pieces, because I and I you are so right. If it's already so emotionally charged, we're talking about divorce. It can be really hard to get into this sympathetic mode of I have to assume these good intentions they are not trying to hurt me. And what that looks like is if your spouse is withdrawn, it's not that man. They wake up and say, oh, I don't hug, I know how to get at Preston and I'm going to I'm going to withdraw for a couple of days. That'll show him. No, it's if they're withdrawn, the assuming good intentions. It really the way you frame that is that man, I have to assume that they are so they are so hurt or are not feeling connected that they feel like by withdrawing. That's the really the only way that they feel like maybe that I'll see, recognize or notice. So even if somebody shows up in their angry then I feel like that's the one where I'll hear often. I'm supposed to assume that good intentions there and that's what we have to do. That is pillar one. So if somebody is like frustrated and they're saying, look, I'm tired of this and I just got to get something off my chest, you can assume good intentions a bit like, man, bless their heart, they don't know how else to share this message with me because we have been in the space that we haven't felt so connected. So I have to assume that this wasn't a wait till seven thirty at night when the kids are at bed and I'm just going to blast them. It's oh, she just feels like this is the only way she can be heard right now. So assuming good intentions, that's what it would look like.
[00:34:27] And I mean, in the magnetic marriage course, we talk about how to go and how to do these things. So I'm just going to give you the basics of them that, like number one assume intention. Number two, don't send the message of you're wrong. Now, the way that you send that message is when you immediately contradict somebody's statements or feelings. It might look like saying something like, well, that doesn't make sense or no, I'm not or I already know that. Or to answer that, that didn't happen. You can't do this again or something like that, or even it can come up in the positive way where somebody says, I feel nervous, like, no, no, man, you can do it.
[00:35:09] You can do hard things. Like you're immediately contradicting themselves. You're contradicting them. Excuse me. And so if you immediately send the message of you're wrong or I don't believe you, then it puts them on the defense. And so we teach you how to like even if you don't agree with them or even if you do have things that are contradictory, like feelings or statements, or even if the reality of the situation is contradictory to what they're currently saying, we teach you how to approach and navigate that so that it does not send the message of you're wrong.
[00:35:44] It actually allows them to see, like, something that could be helpful to them and it creates a connected energy instead of a confrontational energy.
[00:35:56] And I know we're going to get to this and we'll talk about this over and over. The four pillars are not pick and choose. And this is the importance of the framework. And this is why in the course, we we have every bit of this buttoned up from landmine statements. But these statements to and the reason I say that is quick example.
[00:36:11] I'm married 30 years. I'm a pro Preston. I'm a marriage therapist. Right. The all the stuff. And I'm on a run with my wife over the weekend and I could tell that she was maybe felt a little bit that I missed the ball and something and so say, hey, tell me about what you were going to do this thing. And I was like, oh, no, no, remember, I was going to do this. And she could have easily right then said, no, we talked about this and you're wrong. And so I would have been defensive. And she's like, oh, OK. All right. So if you don't remember this other conversation, I can totally understand why you went this other went and did this other thing. And then so right there she assumed good intentions. It turns out she knew she was right. She knew I was wrong, but she was like, I can understand that. And then it's OK. And I just remembered when we were walking by this one particular house and having this conversation about one of our kids in this event. And I was like, OK, yep, nope. I totally remember that. My bad and I know that sounds simplistic, but that's the importance of the framework that we're teaching because and that's why I feel like people will often say, OK, I'll do that for the most part. But if I know he's wrong, then sorry, I got to let him know. And it's no, trust this framework. And that's why we've laid the course out with so many things to build up to this. This will work. This is the way that you go every time.
[00:37:25] And that's where it comes down to. What do you want? You want to be right or do you want to be connected? and in a marriage, you get to choose? So here's the thing. Are you in a marriage? Cool. Do you want to stay in that marriage? Cool if you're not in a marriage. This isn't for you. If you don't want to stay in your marriage, this isn't for you. But if you are and you want to stay cool, you get to choose, do you want to be right all the time or do you want to be connected? And it is you just get to choose.
[00:37:59] And so what I love about that is it doesn't have to be. We're on the brink of divorce. This is where I truly believe at my core that these skills that we teach are not natural. They're not factory settings, because I could get out on how we come into relationships with abandonment and attachment, all that stuff. But we are already so protective and we're so ready to run back into that bunker and start hurling insults and that sort of thing because of this not going well. This is for this is this part where it will improve anyone's communication.
[00:38:28] I it really anyone. Anyone. And so when you utilize that second principle, the second pillar, you get to the third pillar, which is questions before comments. So it's very easy to just say what you think and tell your opinion. Here's the deal. Stephen Covey talks about seek first to understand, then seek to be understood. And so you just ask questions.
[00:38:53] Now, here's the deal. What questions do you ask? Empathetic questions. And we have a whole list of them that I kept asking. I kept on the list of things. I mean, the list of things to choose from because these things are not innate and they're not taught and they don't it's not a factory setting kind of deal. I'll tell you this right now, like when people don't have a really thriving, connected, passionate magnetic marriage, it's not your fault, honestly, like you haven't been taught how to do it. people, Marriages don't come with a handbook. And just like children don't come with a handbook. And if you think I should already know how to do this because I'm an adult now. No, no, no, no, no, nobody does. People confuse physical development and maturity with emotional development, emotional maturity, physical maturity happens to us. You don't have to do anything. You grow, you start getting hair, really all the things like that. And and you're like, oh, now I'm an adult. OK, that happens to you. Emotional growth and emotional maturity. It doesn't just happen. It's not a package deal. You have to seek it out. And I have spent years and years and ten thousand hours and thousands of dollars like really working on these things. And so have you Tony. And now we are creating a situation where other people can expedite that process and learn from the things that we have learned over the last years. You can take years with the knowledge and put it into six to eight weeks, like honestly, and then you get to learn how to implement it.
[00:40:31] But that's. Yeah, yeah. Because and say that pillar three, I think that when we were talking earlier, when I say that, somebody says, what if you already know everything about your spouse or you know what they're going to say.
[00:40:41] This is where things we're going to find out things you never knew before because if you've assumed the good intentions, you haven't said they're wrong. And now you start asking questions. That person feels safe. And when they feel safe, this is where they go. They get to go deep. They get to go. Well, actually, here's how I feel about this situation and this this example I gave earlier about where do you want to retire when we finally got that one in this CCS, we put it in this framework.
[00:41:03] The woman, yeah, she doesn't like sand and she gets sunburn. But the beach represented freedom. And in a childhood where there was a lot of challenge and struggle. And so I was like, why didn't you tell me that?
[00:41:12] And I wanted to say I did say because you already said that the thing about the sand and the sun. And so at some point somebody said, forget it. And so then if you don't have this framework, she's never going to feel heard about really what her deepest goals and desires and experiences are and what a gift that he got at that point.
[00:41:32] And they left that conversation feeling connected.
[00:41:36] Beautiful. Which brings us perfectly to the fourth pillar, which is stay present and lean in.
[00:41:41] Now, here's the thing. Leaning in is not intuitive, because leaning in includes the potential of getting hurt because it's vulnerable and our brain is not wired for growth and connection. Our brain is immediately out the gate, wired for survival, survival and protection just is and it is survival. You get to survive and you get to protect yourself when you wall yourself up and when you go into your bunker and you get defensive and you start blaming, that is survival. You are protecting yourself. You just are. Yeah. And that's why I say, what do you want? Do you want to be right, which is the protection or do you want to be connected? And I guarantee that when you do this. There will be times where it will not go super smoothly and where you might get a little bit hurt emotionally. OK, welcome to being in a marriage. I'm just saying, like you, if you want to actually create this thriving, passionate, connected, beautiful, exciting magnetic relationship that you deserve.
[00:42:55] It comes with a little bit of risk.
[00:42:57] And that's why we guide you through the process so that you can avoid all the things where you will get really, really hurt and you're going to fall and skin your knees, so to speak, because that's just part of the process of anything you've got to learn. And if you're willing to do that because you realize that there's amazing things on the other side, then, boy, this is for you.
[00:43:23] It really isn't that fourth that fourth pillar too. And I feel like this is one that honestly, even as we were starting to talk about these pillars, I admittedly felt like one, two and three were so important in this. Four was good until I realized here's how it manifests. And I feel like anyone listening to this, I've gotten so much feedback from this piller when what it can look like. Yeah, we say lean in. But what what the opposite of that looks like is something can still assume good intentions. They can not tell the person that wrong. They can ask the questions. And then when it gets uncomfortable, like Preston says, they go to the OK, I guess I'm just a crummy dad or I guess I'm just a bad husband. No, that is not leaning in. That's going into victimhood and that is wanting your partner to now rescue you. And so that's why and I remember, Preston, when when we were talking about this earlier, when we were where you were saying, OK, these aren't you can't say, OK, I'll do one and three. If you look at any conversation that devolves, I guarantee you that it will be because of one of these four pillars. And you must and we talk about this so much of how to stay in those four pillars and what to watch out for. And I feel people will really resonate with the man I do that or I didn't even know that was a bad thing.
[00:44:33] When me and my wife started implementing this, she in her infinite wisdom, dude she, We got into an argument even after we did one of these conversations. And then she came back to me the next day and she said, oh, my gosh, I was looking at this list. And I, I didn't do pillare No. Two. And that's where it went off the rails and it was a light bulb in my head was like, oh wow, she's so smart. And she figured out a piece of this where any time you have a difficult conversation or an argument or a confrontation or anything like that, or even if it's just a cold shoulder avoiding like it doesn't have to be explosive, which is like just cold, you can go back and go over the conversation in your head and you can say, oh, I didn't do pillar one or or I didn't do pillar four in this situation. And that's where it went off the rails straight up. You can always, always identify one of the pillars that didn't get adhered to. And that's four pieces. That's what four pillars take one of them out of the platform is going to fall, it just will. yeah. And so it ends up being really, really important to do those. And like said, we guide you through it. That's what the course is for. That's what this training, this marriage training experience is for so that you can have the third thing.
[00:45:58] I want you to really take the reins or consider again, my vulnerability was I felt like we hit the accountability. We got the conversation scripts. We got. We've got some personality things in there. We've got some ways to figure out your partner. We've got all that stuff. I loved all of that. And Preston would say, OK, I'm big energy guy. And that is kind of like this concept of masculine and feminine energy. It's not about gender. It's about this energy roles. And I don't know why, I had heard of that.
[00:46:25] And I think that with this kind of goes back to my own experiences in a session where I would feel like someone would come in and and say, oh, are you familiar with this? Or this would be some concept that I felt like someone had read just online. And I realize now I would feel this. No, no, I'm the therapist, you know that. I don't know all of those things. Let me tell you the things I know. And and so that was a challenge for me to really lean into this concept of energy. And now I can't tell you how much I use this. I use this literally every day in multiple sessions. And it's also really helped me in my own marriage, in my own the way I show up with my parenting. And I kind of want you to drive this one Preston because I just want to be very open and vulnerable. Say I'm a I'm a I'm a neophyte when it comes to this energy portion.
[00:47:09] However, you have implemented it and you have learned it and you have taught it like so, so well. So, yeah, it's it's relatively new to you, but you're a pro and you get this stuff. And I've seen you in our sessions when we've created the content and you've told me about the way that you've approached it with your clients and stuff like that. So stop selling yourself short. So check this out. You're very kind in in a relationship that is typical, where the man in the relationship has more of a core masculine energy and the woman has more of a core feminine energy. Now, that is not every relationship. I totally understand that. Bottom line is in a relationship, there are energies. It's like yin and yang. You can think about it in terms of that, because when I say masculine, feminine, I am not talking about male and female. I'm not talking about gender, even though that's how we often apply it in our brain. And so I'm just going to ask you to turn off that old filter of your brain, because what I'm talking about is. Creating two things that are in there, they are there in their opposites, I guess, so that they can attract think about it as a magnet like North and South and North Pole. And a magnet will attract, if you have to South's, then they're going to repel each other.
[00:48:36] And you can have really, really good friends that you both have to feminine energies or both have to masculine energies. That's awesome.
[00:48:46] That's not what we're talking about here, because the difference between a friendship and a marriage is a physical sexual relationship. That's one of the main differences. Right. So what we're doing is we're creating this piece of the relationship that that creates attraction. And so think about this. If I've lost you a little bit, think about this. If you are a woman in a relationship, what happens when you feel like you're not noticed or you feel like you're dismissed or if you feel like you're not understood or if you feel like you're not safe?
[00:49:25] And I'm not talking about necessarily physical safety, but if you feel like you're not safe to express your emotions or you're not, you don't feel secure even if he has a good job, like I just don't feel secure in our state of the world and of our brand and stuff like that. There's a lot of things happening outside of our control and I don't feel safe.
[00:49:44] What happens when you don't feel seen, don't feel acknowledged, don't feel understood and don't feel safe? My guess is that you shut down. And so what we've done in this course is we've outlined a very specific way for you to feel like you can create a situation where you feel seen, acknowledged, understood, safe and secure so that you can relax, so that you can enjoy the relationship and so that you can be radiant, you can just be radiant and you can trust your spouse and you can really, like, celebrate him.
[00:50:31] And really look to him as just your hero, honestly.
[00:50:37] And now, well, before you move on from that, because this was some stuff that I really enjoy and I've got some notes that I pulled up that I will bring up in session. Now, there's some real key things I think that you've but you've touched on to that that need to feel safe and secure according to them. And that's where I recognized and again, this is where these things can plug into that four pillars, connected conversation script to have this conversation so that then she feels heard to say, here is how I feel safe. And that the person the guy hearing it doesn't hear that is a you are a pile of garbage because you're not doing this because he wants to say, no, I am I am providing safety to you. Here's how. But it has to be according to them. And so that's the part where they need to be men and women.
[00:51:19] Yeah, men and women. Idea of what makes them feel safe and secure is just wildly different because we're different creatures.
[00:51:27] But you're totally right. And so I talk to the men for a second. Think about think about when you feel criticized.
[00:51:35] Think about when you feel picked, think about think about when your spouse feels like your energy is closed off and cold.
[00:51:44] And if you think about if you are in a situation where you feel like a little bit controlled or things are just like enforced and you feel like you don't have some freedom, OK? Well, we can teach you the things that you can do, think, feel, say all those things so that you can actually create a situation where your spouse wants to give you sincere praise. Where you're showing up in such a way where they feel safe to be open, vulnerable and playful with their energy. And where they allow you the opportunity, they allow you to operate with trust because you are showing up in such a way where you are trustworthy and it creates the situation, think about men right now. If you listen and think about what would it feel like to be able to get sincere praise? And to be able to have a spouse with open, vulnerable and playful with their energy that you can you can feel secure with.
[00:52:46] And also. You feel like they trust you. And you're allowed to.
[00:52:54] Just operate free. It's just a really, really creates this open, open situation energetically. One of the things that I have really, really started to learn and implement in my own marriage and my coaching and you and yours is that this is the missing piece, when you take obviously accountability, you're taking control of your emotional situation, which we can show you how when you implement the CCS or the connected conversation script where you're using the four pillars to be able to unlock the connection energetically and emotionally and physically between you and your spouse so that you know them, you really understand them, and they know and understand you.
[00:53:42] And you're excited to actually have conversations, even if that conversation in the past would have been a third rail, no go. And then when you take that and you couple it with. This energetic piece of masculine and feminine, what is called polarity, polarity, is the state of being at two different poles. Think North South Pole on the globe. There are they are opposites, right, than the north in the South Pole on the globe create a magnetic field that allows things to be magnetically attracted to each other. So when you step into your core energy, we show you how, when you step into that, it creates a situation that allows your spouse to step into their core energy. And then you are like a north and South Pole of a magnet, and then you become magnetic and then you become attracted and you have a thriving passion, connected, exciting, fulfilling relationship. And these are the things that work. And we've seen them work in our own marriages and we've seen them work in so many other marriages. So if this is something that you want, then what we've done is we are actually releasing this course limited, like we're only opening it up to 10 couples right now. Later on, we're going to open it up to more. But right now, we're only opening it up to 10 couples. We're going to take you through a really it's like a Founders'. You get to be the founding member of this program, the STRAIN program, and we're offering it to people for a discounted price because it's just the first opening of it. And so you want to be one of these 10 people, ten couples. And first question that you're going to ask is, can I do it without my spouse?
[00:55:29] Yes, yes, yes, yes. If you feel pulled to do this, we will teach you we have a like a solo contract you can track, like, basically if you feel told to do this. I know from personal experience that you can change your marriage, by yourself. it sounds counterintuitive, I know, because you're like it takes two to tango. Yes, it does. However, you can create a situation where you do it by yourself and by do it by yourself. What I mean is shift your behavior, shift your paradigm, shift your energy. And that allows the situation to create an opportunity for the whole thing to shift. It really does work.
[00:56:14] So if this is what I love that you're saying that because that is something that I have and we talked about this earlier, we weren't even sure if we how we would implement this. And we put a lot of work and effort into that, because I do feel that there is a message kind of being touted out there by media, by psychologists. That is, you have to get yourself together in order to then show up in a marriage. And this is where this whole thing is based off of this concept. Again, we're designed to deal with emotion in concert with another human being. I feel like we bridge that gap of I can hold myself accountable, but then I can also use these skills, these everything from this confident energy, the way to have a connected conversation using the formula, even if there's only one person using the formula and that it will shift and change your marriage. And it's not in a I'm going to work on me and I don't care about you. And I feel like that's the message that's often out there, that if your spouse is not wanting a part of a program like this or they aren't wanting to work on self-improvement, that I know I share this with you so many times Preston where I think I just get so frustrated by that because I'll get that see that message out there. Look, you just got to do you and I hear you and I understand when people see that, but I feel like that is missing such a huge opportunity to. Yes. Accountability and figure yourself out. But then here's how you now show up so that you can still get this connection with you spouse.
[00:57:32] It's not either or. It's not either or. I just do it by myself or we do it like it's so it's a new way of looking at it, which I am working on myself and I'm choosing the version of me that is going to show up. And now I have a specific way to do that and achieving that. And I'm creating a situation where I'm standing up for things that I desire and and holding myself accountable, holding myself to a higher standard and saying, well, this is what I would like in return. But it's not from a hidden agenda perspective. There's no hidden agendas and you're not demanding.
[00:58:06] And so it creates an invitation. And rarely is that turned down. Because my guess is your spouse wants this, too, even if they don't understand what it is that they want.
[00:58:17] So this is the thing. If you want to be one of these foundational foundation sounding like 10 couples to be able to go through this course, this magnetic marriage course, then go to TonyOverbay.com/magnetic. Tony Overbay, magnetic, and there's a special rate for people who are founding members of this, we're going to open up the ten spots and we're so excited because when you invest in your relationship, think about think about this. What does your relationship look like one year from now if you don't do anything?
[00:58:57] Just think about that. Does it look the same? Does it look worse? If it looks the same.
[00:59:04] Are you OK with that? If you are, this is not for you. If you are not OK with it, this is for you.
[00:59:12] So here's what we want you to do. Go to TonyOverbay.com/magnetic. And enroll as one of the founding members of the magnetic merge course and we are going to take you through it has six lessons, 6 training experiences and you get to watch these videos. There is actually scripts and worksheets that we've created for you. There are the training videos. It's all held within a program. And then you get to work with us in a group setting every single week. We're going to come on and we're going to do live like coaching and Q&A videos with you so that you can have ways to implement these things in your specific experience. It's like your specific relationships and your specific marriages, because every marriage is kind of different. The principles work. They do. If you want to understand how to navigate these things with your spouse and say, well, this happens and then get specific coaching and therapy from Tony and I, then this is one of your best chances to do it. And you get it straight up. You get at a fraction of the price. It's about it because it's in a group setting. It gets a tenth of what it would look like to work with us one on one. And so this is going to be a way for you to create the relationship that you want.
[01:00:29] So make this happen. So right now, you are in one of three categories. You are a yes, in which case can go click, do it enroll right now. Or the second category is you are. I know. In which case don't do it. Like how does it feel to trust yourself and know that this isn't the timing for me is the, Most likely you're in a third category where you're saying yes, but. Yes, I want this, but, man, I don't know if he's going to do this or yes, but I don't know if we have the money for this right now. Yes, but there's a lot of things happening with the kids in sports right now, I don't have time. And so I'm going to tell you this, whatever comes after that. But for you. Yes, but then you have this excuse. If you're using an excuse for this, I guarantee you using that excuse for other areas of your life and you're not actually living life on your terms. So what I'm going to challenge you to do is to prove to yourself that you're no longer going to use that excuse.
[01:01:34] You're going to say, I'm done with that excuse, here is me showing that I am not going to use that excuse because I know that this is something that I want that I deserve in my life. And so you put that excuse, excuse aside, money, time blaming, things, and then you actually show up for yourself, show up for your marriage, show up for your relationship and invest, create this opportunity for you to make a change.
[01:02:02] Be done with that excuse. Go from the. Yes, but to a straight up Yes, because I'll tell you this. Things are not going to change on their own, that's not how life works and we want you to be able to have this in your life. That's why we created this, because it's changed my life. And so that's why I'm so excited about it and bold about telling people this is something that you deserve. And I'm so excited to be working with Tony and I'm so grateful for you, Tony, because you really have changed my life and you changed my marriage. And the things that we've done together have been so impactful. And I'm so excited to impact other people as well.
[01:02:45] So I got the chills. Whoo hoo hoo! Who's cutting onions in my office now? It's been the same. Like, say, no one else could have pushed me the way you did. And it has been an enjoyable push. And and so that's where Preston is really helping me, because there's that part of me that still has such a hard time. As much as I love doing podcasts and it may appear that I want to put myself out there, it's still really difficult for me. But I could not agree more with what Preston is saying, because this is why I got into this business. I did a whole career shift. I never wanted to work with couples until I found this model. And here we are, 15 years, a thousand plus couples later, thousands of hours in the office. And so there's no part of me that even worries that this might not work. I've said that to Preston so many times. And Preston is the one that's helped us put this in a tangible format. So I one hundred percent do feel like I'm giddy about I would I will still I will confess depressing. Sometimes I'm Googling things late at night.
[01:03:41] Somebody's got to have something out there like this. I mean, we can't but is not. And so I really am just I can't even wait. I can't. So we could go on and on with this. But yeah. TonyOverbay.com/magnetic. Preston Pugmire, holy cow. Chocolate peanut butter. They go together. So well here we are. I can't wait in the beginning of many things. Some day we're doing retreats. We got the tigers jump down on a stage. Preston will perform. He's a ten year traveling performance. Let's get all that stuff. And it starts right now.
[01:04:08] So yes, Preston, I can't wait to have you back on the couch. All right. Thanks a lot. We'll talk to you later, OK