Ending your relationship with a narcissist can leave one feeling discarded, less than, and what Ross Rosenberg, author of “Human Magnet Syndrome” calls “Pathologically lonely.” That loneliness is part of what Rosenberg Identifies as “Self-Love Deficit Disorder.” https://www.selfloverecovery.com/pages/self-love-deficit-disorder-and-self-love-abundance In today’s episode, Tony reads a few listener reviews, and then he addresses Rosenberg’s model to move from “Self-Love Deficit Disorder” to “Self-Love Abundance.”
Go to http://tonyoverbay.com/workshop to take Tony’s mini-course on how to identify, and work toward, a healthy, emotionally mature relationship.
With the continuing "sheltering" rules spreading across the country, PLEASE do not think you can't continue or begin therapy now. http://betterhelp.com/virtualcouch can put you quickly in touch with licensed mental health professionals who can meet through text, email, or videoconference often as soon as 24-48 hours. And if you use the link http://betterhelp.com/virtualcouch, you will receive 10% off your first month of services. Please make your mental health a priority, http://betterhelp.com/virtualcouch offers affordable counseling, and they even have sliding scale options if your budget is tight.
You can learn more about Tony's pornography recovery program, The Path Back, by visiting http://pathbackrecovery.com And visit http://tonyoverbay.com and sign up to receive updates on upcoming programs and podcasts.
Tony mentioned a product that he used to take out all of the "uh's" and "um's" that, in his words, "must be created by wizards and magic!" because it's that good! To learn more about Descript, click here https://descript.com?lmref=bSWcEQ
[00:00:07] Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 30 of Waking Up to Narcissism. I'm your host, Tony Overbay. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and host of the Virtual Couch podcast. And I missed you last week. Why? Because I didn't record a podcast. I was out in Idaho watching my son in law graduate from college. And if you've been following along on the virtual couch, the story of my daughter who got in a car wreck. It was a really beautiful moment. We had a local news station there that covered the story and the news station interviewed my son in law, Mitch and myself. And then they also showed my daughter Alexa watching the graduation from Arizona in her wheelchair. She's recovering. So it was just it was a beautiful moment. But I had all the intentions in the world of recording an episode while I was on the road. And and I did not get to that and I missed it. I love the feedback that I'm getting from waking up to narcissism, so that's a nice way for me to say thank you and please keep the questions coming and the stories and the suggestions. And I will get to those. I will get to those at some point for sure. I continue to keep this running document that has the questions that people are asking, and they are numerous and they are plentiful, and I want to cover all of them at some point. I really do.
[00:01:17] I want to start today by reading a few of the reviews that have come in recently. Then I've got an email and then we are getting to an amazing topic. I'm going to talk a lot about the author of Human Magnet Syndrome, and I found some information on a concept called Pathological Loneliness, and I just love when you can learn new things there. Again, no scarcity of information in trying to learn more about emotional immaturity, narcissistic traits and tendencies, narcissistic behavior. So please, by all means binge this podcast, other podcasts, YouTube videos, groups, whatever you need to do. It's a process. It is a journey and a process. And in the private Facebook group that I run for women in narcissistic relationships again, and that's anything from their spouse to their to their parent to their siblings, friends, all of those sorts of things are represented in that group. But I love I love in that group. People are posting more and more of different podcasts and YouTube videos. And I remember very, very early on someone said they had direct messaged me and said, Is it okay if I link to another podcast? And I thought, Of course, please. The more information the merrier. And I love hearing that there are therapists out there that are talking about popcorn moments and talking about my five rules of trying to understand a narcissistic relationship. And so please, please, please share and share and listen to all the things and watch the things and read the things and share all the things.
[00:02:39] And the more information you can get, the more you are going to feel confident about your decisions that you're going to be making, about what to do in your own relationship and how you show up in a relationship and how you find yourself. And I am off on tangent number one, which kind of speaks to the first review I want to read. This one is from Apple Podcasts. I've got a there's a product called Charitable that will show all the reviews from the different podcasting platforms. And again, I am not asking or begging for reviews, but I just so appreciate them. I really do. It does bring a little bit more awareness or notice to the podcast so more people can find it. But this one says it says Tony authentically himself supports the masses. And the reviewer says Tony's been a validating voice to contradict the voice in my head. And marriage that is called me crazy every single day for a couple of decades. I appreciate the stories he brings, the compassion he embodies, and the realism he considers in his approach. He gives strategies that can actually be implemented day one very nicely. Say he's a very bright guy, clearly, and this is why I want to read it. I think they nailed it. They really did. And sometimes his ideas come more quickly than his stories can keep up, but stay with him, listen to it twice, slow it down and you will get it.
[00:03:46] This podcast will throw you a lifeline. I will take that. I will own every bit of that. That is absolutely true. I just get so excited about the work or the examples or the things that will come into my mind. So I really appreciate that review and I just another person said The podcast has been so helpful for me. How helpful for me to understand narcissism. I really like Tony's tone and the direct yet compassionate way he speaks to both parties and the relationship and the review goes on. But before I even go there, I so appreciate that the way that we speak to both parties and the relationship, I continue to get more and more people that are saying, Hey, the emotional immaturity thing really rings a bell because there absolutely ways that I show up as an emotionally immature person. And I've had some people that are saying, okay, I had heard narcissism and I quite frankly, it sounded so harsh or mean and I didn't even want to take a look at it. But emotional immaturity. I start there and it turns out that I am definitely high on the narcissistic spectrum. So just whatever it takes to bring some awareness to this topic, I just so appreciate that. They said listening has been so validating for me in a relationship with someone with some very narcissistic traits, possible narcissistic personality disorder and also helps.
[00:04:52] It's also helpful for me to look at my own actions and self check to make sure I'm not falling into narcissistic patterns myself. Thanks so much for the valuable information, so just thank you so much. Another one more. This person said the podcast is a lifesaver. He said. I'm confident that this podcast is partly to credit for saving my I literally does kind of choke me up. I started listening because I wanted to know how to deal with my spouse as I questioned if they were a narcissist. Turns out both of us are a bit emotionally immature in certain ways. The tools and concepts discussed here have helped me to mature as a person along with individual therapy. Thank you. We're going to get to talking about that a little bit later today and find a better way forward with my spouse. I was very close to asking for a divorce and having a hard time with it. But through a lot of listening, learning and work on myself, I think we can make this work. Thank you so much, Tony. And what I do know that is so fascinating about this concept of emotional immaturity, emotional maturity is that I still go big with people aren't familiar or they don't even really know what they don't know. And if they weren't modeled a healthy relationship, then this whole waking up process can be it can be equal parts revealing and fascinating and frustrating and hopeful and then discouraging.
[00:06:04] And I just go back to what I said, I think, in the trailer for waking up the narcissism that you're going to read the things that say just leave, go immediately. But it's absolutely not as easy as that because of kids and financial obligations and and just support systems. And so there's so many variables that go into making that decision on what do I do with my relationship? So I'm going to meet you where you're at. I really am. If you are done, then let's help you with those tools. If you are just waking up to this and you are starting to say, maybe my situation isn't so bad, or now with this information I think I can really make it work. Then we're going to help you with that too. But I think one of the key foundational I think one of the key foundational principles is really understanding what a healthy relationship can look like. And that is absolutely two autonomous, interdependent people coming into a relationship with their own experiences and then just having curiosity. On my Virtual Couch podcast this week, I did one on a letter by Hunter Thompson, who is an author. His friend long ago had asked him for advice. And I love everything about the way that Hunter Thompson broke down someone asking him for advice. He said, You ask advice what a very human and very dangerous thing to do for to give advice to a man who asks what to do with his life and play something very close to egomania.
[00:07:24] And right out of the gate in this letter and again, go listen to the episode on the virtual couch. But right out of the gate, it's if someone is telling you, hey, this is what you need to do. Hunter Thompson nails it where he's saying, doesn't that reek a little bit of egomania? He said, to presume to point a man to the right and ultimate goal to point with the trembling finger in the right direction is something only a fool would take upon himself. And he says, I'm not a fool, but I respect your sincerity in asking for my advice. But then he said, I ask you, though, in listening to what I say, to remember that all advice can only be a product of the man who gives it. And we can assume that we're talking man, woman, child, anyone. But what is truth to one may be disaster to another. He said, I don't see life through your eyes nor you through mine. If I were to attempt to give you specific advice, it would be too much like the blind leading the blind. And he goes on to say that every man is the sum total of his reactions to experience. As your experiences differ and multiply, you become a different man and hence your perspective changes.
[00:08:21] This goes on and on. Every reaction is a learning process. Every significant experience alters your perspective. That's the concept of emotional maturity, is that your going through life is you, your spouse, your parent, your sibling. They're going through life as them. So that's where I say how adorable for them to say, Well, here's what I think you should do. Or I think you're doing this thing wrong without approaching things with curiosity. Hey, tell me about why you're doing that or tell me what your thoughts are about something. And let's start from there. Let's start from a place of I know you're having your experience and I'm having my experience and let's have some curiosity. And if your spouse isn't on board with that, then please, by all means, you please listener understand that every experience you're having is absolutely valid. Why do you do things? Because you do them because this is the first time you're going through life as you in this very moment instead of what's wrong with me or I'm broken or I'm damaged, which I know it can feel like. I had an amazing session with someone yesterday that they were saying, okay, they understood where I was going with this, but they said, But I do feel that way and my feelings are absolutely valid. And I said, Yes, they are 100% they are. So I do need to acknowledge that when you do feel broken or you do feel what's wrong with you? Again, I want to meet you there, but I want to start to work on helping you reframe that to just say, check this out, this is what I'm thinking, or this is how I show up in this situation because I'm a human being and I'm the only version of me that's ever walked the face of the earth.
[00:09:41] And so in this situation, this is how I show up. Let me give you a little bit of an example that I find funny, but I really hope that you'll see where I'm going with this. While in Idaho, I lost my AirPods, my apple AirPods. If you have them, they're amazing. If you don't have them, you think people look kind of silly with the little post sticking out of their ears, but I really do enjoy them and I lost them and I wanted to go into this. What's wrong with me looking? Be losing things, just flushing money down the toilet. That voice wanted to come screaming in there, but instead, that wasn't my goal. I didn't go. You want me to get to Idaho and I'm going to lose these bad boys? No, it happened. So check that out. That happened. Here's how I really want to help you view a situation. So now here's my data. I hope you can follow my train of thought with some humor here that what I determined was that every single time that I go to Idaho to watch my son in law graduate while my daughter is in Arizona and is watching on zoom from her wheelchair, and I book a hotel that is about an hour away because I wasn't really sure.
[00:10:41] I didn't have my bearings. And then I decide that that hotel is too far away. So I book another hotel that's even closer. And then I go to that hotel with my daughter, and then we leave the next morning to head back to the airport and Salt Lake City. Every single time I've done that in my entire life, I have lost my AirPods. So you see where I'm going with that. It just happens. Wasn't something that I intended to do. I wasn't trying to hurt anybody. I'm not crazy. That happened. I was bummed, absolutely felt bummed and disappointed and had to buy some wired ones. And I walked around the airport. All of a sudden I felt like I looked like a caveman because I had wires coming out of my headphones, which I thought was so funny because I remember back in the day when those looked pretty amazing. But you are just showing up as you and that is absolutely okay. And check that out and take the shame away. Take the guilt away that just happened. So let me get to the email that I want to read and then we will jump right into today's topic, which we're going to talk a little bit about pathological loneliness as well as a couple of other things.
[00:11:43] Okay. It's titled The Big Thank You. And they said Hi, Tony. And totally okay, if you want to share some of the story anonymously. And then we're going to leave out some of the details and I'm going to change some of the things as well. They said, Hi, Tony. I thankfully came across your podcast, waking up to narcissism through a good friend of mine. They've heard the term before, but never knew that it was an actual disorder beyond the word casually being referenced here or there. They said, I'm waking up to the fact that I am recovering from narcissistic abuse after leaving a committed relationship, which has been just a little over two years now. They said because of the podcast, the expertize and all the experience of everybody is shared. The ice is starting to melt, and all the dysfunction I was playing a part in is starting to make sense, which just what was said warms my heart. We're talking about ice melting. I didn't see that one coming. They said we're talking straight out of the book, gaslighting, blaming me for their medical exits. They appreciated that episode. So in the medical exits again is when somebody is finally the emotionally mature narcissist is finally trapped, they have no way out. Rather than say My bad or take accountability, there can be chest pains, fainting spells, whatever it takes.
[00:12:48] But they said the person then joking about suicide. So then I have to live with the guilt, the person continually walking in front of me wherever they go on the road, on the sidewalk at Disneyland, pulling the car over in pitch black areas and threatening to drop me off on the side of the road. And isn't that just wild? If you've been through that, how can you not assume that that is only happening to you? So then I share a dozen examples of the emails that I get and people just think, Oh my gosh, this is a thing that I am not crazy, but it is crazy. It is. So any of that when somebody says, Yeah, it's only been a couple of times, well, that's two times too many. It really is. And no one deserves to be treated like that. They also said basically in opposition to all of my choices and playing this role of devil's advocate, I did an episode on the virtual couch long, long ago about the concept of devil's advocate. I understand when somebody is doing it from a place, I mean. Well, actually, it's not a big fan of the concept of devil's advocate. I'm a big fan of. Tell me more about that. And here's my opinion. Again, I just talk consistently about my four pillars, but this concept of just well, let me play devil's advocate, basically, is me saying, well, let me try to tell you how silly or stupid I think that your idea is, rather than saying, hey, tell me about your idea and then let me share my experience.
[00:14:06] And I wasn't trying to plug anything here, but I had a really amazing turnout to my virtual marriage workshop last week. I'm going to make that available. Hopefully by the time you listen to this, you can go to Tony over Baker slash workshop. It was 90 minutes. And and I really did try to lay out what a relationship really looks like and why they can be difficult and what the challenges are and the problems. You can go there if you want to hear more. And I go through the four pillars and a lot of details that's of interest, Tony, over Baker slash workshop. The person then goes on to say they also started to feel more isolated, controlled, and the person started to sequester them from their friends and from family. Because the more isolated that someone can make someone else feel, the more control they have over that person and their entire experience. They said, Meanwhile, I couldn't dare tell him to rinse his dishes before putting them in the dishwasher, even though he would absolutely tell me that I put the dishes in the dishwasher wrong. But then manipulating me with money, telling me that I'm the messed up one because I want to go and get help.
[00:15:11] I couldn't ask a question without him being condescending or talking to me like I'm stupid. I just feel so sad putting up with this for so long. They said I had no idea this was a thing. And it is. It's a thing. Thank you so much for shedding light on this and helping me wake up. I realize that there has been an unwell part inside of me that has accepted this unacceptable behavior for too long, and I've been blaming myself for his reactions and catering to him. I don't like to think of myself as a victim here, just a person that needs more healing and the right kind of support. And thankfully, they are waking up to that and having the courage for their family, for their kids. And I really do like that because that victim word carries a lot with it. It can carry shame. And we want to stay away from shame because there's again, nothing wrong with you as a person. Yeah, you might feel bad about that. Oh, I wish I would have been aware of this earlier, but you're aware of it. When you become aware of it, your path, your journey is yours and it's going to take a little bit of time and it can take a lot of time, but you're on the right path and you really are needing more healing and you need the right kind of support. So if you're listening to this, if you're meeting with a therapist, if you're talking with others that are safe, that aren't the Switzerland friends, and you're devouring all the information, you're doing the work you really are.
[00:16:30] So just stay on that path. Have you ever felt lonely? Have you felt lonely in your relationship? Or especially if you have then decided to exit the relationship? What does that loneliness feel like? I have so many clients that get to a weekend. Let's say that now they're sharing custody with the kids or their adult kids are out of the house and they were used to at least someone there, even though it wasn't a healthy relationship that their narcissist was there. So if you go back to the core of attachment, we don't even know we exist when we're born. We're just an entity until we have interaction with another thing. I would imagine there's some sort of physics explanation or that that kind of thing. But from an attachment standpoint, you don't know you are a thing until you interact with another thing, because now you know that you exist and that there is something else there. So I feel like we carry that all the way through into adulthood at times, and people stay in relationships because they at their core just if they are alone, then that feels like abandonment. And again, abandonment to our minds at its deepest level is death. The abandonment equates to death. But part of this process of becoming more emotionally mature is learning to internally validate and self love that learning to love yourself and love to spend time with yourself.
[00:17:50] And that is not a narcissistic trait. That is an emotionally mature trait, because if you love yourself, then you're going to show up better and more emotionally mature and healthy in relationships. And now we're looking at things with curiosity. It's that insecurity is what drives somebody to then say, Hey, I am better than or I have to always be right? Because that's the only way that they feel validation is this from external sources of making sure that they are better than they can put someone else down. They knew that before you did. But if you are coming from a place of I know what I know, I like what I like and I'm okay with me, then I'm going to even show up in relationships or conversations with emotionally immature people. And when they're telling me what I'm supposed to do or what I'm supposed to know, if I'm internally validated, if I love myself, then I just again say, Oh, okay, thank you for your advice. Or Those are definitely words. And so I appreciate that. And you have a lot of emotion behind your words when you tell me what to do. So thank you. That emotion is definitely a thing. But you're not saying, oh, my gosh, what's wrong with me? Or maybe they're right or but we want you to show up as internally validated and confident.
[00:19:00] So loneliness is definitely a thing. And pathological loneliness just hits a little different as the kids say. So I'm going to talk about some work from Ross Rosenberg. I'm going to just quote him like crazy today. Ross Rosenberg is the author of Human Magnet Syndrome, which is an amazing book. One of the ones that I've gathered so much data from that has helped me in my practice. And he runs or he's a big contributor to the Self Love Recovery Institute, and that is a self love recovery. So Ross Rosenberg, just a quick about him is Self Love Recovery Institute CEO, primary contributor, and he is internationally recognized expert in topics including pathological narcissism, narcissistic abuse and attachment trauma. And he has a program called the Codependency Cure. And he said it provides innovative and results oriented treatment. And he's has over 22 million YouTube video views, 230,000 subscribers. And then he's been featured in just I mean, too numerous to count national TV and radio and then quoted in articles. I am a. Big fan of Ross Rosenberg's work, and someday it would be pretty amazing to have him on the podcast. But when I started looking into this concept of pathological loneliness, it brought me to Ross Rosenberg's work and introducing this concept called the Self Love Deficit Disorder and then self love abundance. So on his site, Self Love Recovery, he has some information about the SLD Self Love Deficit Disorder and self love abundance pyramids.
[00:20:36] So I'm going to read a lot of this information and I want to comment on it as well. But Ross starts by saying people find themselves chronically in unhealthy and unbalanced relationships where they give most of the love, respect and care only to receive nothing in return. And despite the pain, they stay in this unhappy and toxic dance because they are afraid of feeling the intense shame. And here we go, pathological loneliness that will arise if they leave. So that shame and loneliness is what keeps people in these unhealthy, unbalanced relationships where they feel like, If I can just do enough, then I will receive love and return. So, he says, often this has been called codependency. However, a more appropriate name is Self Love Deficit Disorder or SLD, and on the ssld pyramid, codependency is a mere symptom of not loving oneself. Codependency is not what needs to be treated, but rather the root cause needs to be addressed. And I'm going to geek out a little bit, therapist fanboy to a sense when I get so excited and talking about these attachment and abandonment wounds and the way that we show up and then I talk about that. We all show up in relationships as codependent, and at times I do feel like people have such a different view or version of codependency. There's a book by Melanie Beattie that's the it's called Codependent No More that is is an absolute stable and in any therapist library.
[00:22:03] I think it was literally one of the first books I got when I was in grad school, and it is a different version of codependency. It's that version of codependency where you are the codependent who continues to provide the alcoholic with their drink of choice, that type of thing. But when you talk about codependency and enmeshment, that's more of an attachment wound or that's more of a an attachment need of that. We feel when we're emotionally immature and we lack a true sense of self because again, nobody comes from the factory with a sense of self. We get that through external validation, primarily from our parents early on. If they're happy, we must be good. If they're not very happy, then we must have done something wrong and we carry that into our that is kind of at the core of emotional immaturity, is having no sense of self and needing that external validation. And that comes from these childhood issues, abandonment, attachment, not seeing people implement or not seeing people model taking ownership for things or not seeing people provide a secure attachment for a kid instead of saying, hey, tell me more about that. If they if a kid goes out and and isn't successful, instead they say, man, I can't believe you did that. I never did that stuff when I was young.
[00:23:17] So we just grow up feeling this concept of less than. So Ross says that the pyramid, the self love deficit disorder pyramid demonstrates why somebody with codependency or self love deficit disorder does not respond to traditional psychotherapy, as the problem is that as the problem that is treated is not the actual cause of the disorder, he said. This invisible and treatment resistant addiction cannot be remedied unless its underlying causes are addressed and solved. In other words, by understanding that codependency or self love deficit disorder is just a bunch of symptoms of a more complicated and fundamental psychological problem, he said. The problem can never be solved, so he has a self love deficit disorder pyramid. Where at the top of the pyramid we'll start at the bottom is the bottom is the attachment trauma. And we're going to we're going to go into these things, the attachment trauma at the bottom of the pyramid. It's conditional childhood attachment, neglect, abuse and or deprivation. So this associated childhood is manifested and expressed memories of abandonment. So let's talk about that. He said it all begins with attachment trauma. That is the root cause. And this is where, again, I feel so validated is the therapist because we are talking about the core of everything is our our attachment wounds. And he calls it the attachment trauma. This often occurs when a child is raised by a narcissistic parent who does not allow them to feel loved or respected or cared for or safe.
[00:24:43] That love is merely conditional and judgmental. And this is where we sometimes say, where does it start? Because I've been looking at things, I've been referring to generational narcissism, where when feelings were absolutely not respected or people would literally get physically hit or abused if they did something wrong. And so then at some point, the generational narcissism. I believe is at play or is going to say at fault because kids were not they didn't speak unless spoken to. And while I didn't ask for your opinion and emotions are going to get in the way of doing work, so it's modeled to a certain point. And that's why if you are waking up to this narcissism or emotional immaturity, that's where I want to give yourself some grace, because this is a process and it's something that is continually evolving. So, again, he says love is merely conditional and judgmental. This trauma is then responsible for causing core shame, and it's a distorted belief of being fundamentally bad or flawed. So again, guilt. I feel bad about something. Shame. I am a bad person and I will continually, constantly beat the drum of. I have literally never seen shame in any, never and any. I don't use those words a lot, but never seen shame as a component in recovery, as a component in growth. It's quite the opposite. And part of the problem is we almost feel like we have to feel bad or have to beat ourselves up or have to have shame in order to grow.
[00:26:08] But it's the opposite. It's recognizing that this is what I did. I'm not a bad person. I'm me. I'm going through life. I've had a lot of experiences and this is what I did that we can get out of that shame cycle. Because he says this trauma is then responsible for causing that core shame. He said it's a distorted belief of being fundamentally bad or flawed, and such toxic shame reduces a person to feeling only good when they take care of others while ignoring themselves again. Toxic shame reduces a person to feeling only good when they take care of others while ignoring themselves. So Ross says loving someone while being invisible creates pathological loneliness. And it is a deep, bone aching emotional pain. This is the excruciating codependency or self love deprivation disorder, self love, deficit disorder, addiction, withdrawal, pain. This is the excruciating codependency or self love deficit disorder or addiction. This withdrawal pain that reduces one to feeling invisible, worthless and unlovable, he said. The pain of it is simply unbearable. Hence the person with SLD again rules. Let's go with SLD, but it is the self love deficit disorder. But with SLD or the CO dependent is uniquely prone to then codependency addiction, which is the desperate need of a relationship that will make the lonely pain go away.
[00:27:26] And if you have felt that pathological loneliness that what he calls deep, bone aching emotional pain is so intense because of this fear of abandonment and fear of loneliness, that then you have this desperate need of a relationship period, a relationship because that will make the lonely pain go away. And unfortunately, while it may make the lonely pain go away, it doesn't get to the core issue of you are okay, you can sit with that pain and this is the time where we're going to get to self love. So Ross said the pathologically narcissistic romantic interest becomes their drug of choice, which never remedies their loneliness and lifelong pursuit of love. But he says there is a cure for self love, deficit disorder or codependency. And it's the achievement of self love, self love abundance. And it's the exact each of the self love deficit disorder pyramids levels. So let me go over that pyramid. So at that base of the self love deficit disorder pyramid, we talked about that it is attachment trauma, conditional childhood attachment, neglect, abuse, center deprivation. So one one step up on this pyramid is the core shame, he said. It's the fundamentally I am bad or flawed self concept that I am only as good as what I do or not do for others a human doing. And then next up on the the pyramid is pathological loneliness. It's that deep, aching, lonely pain, he said. It's excruciating feelings of worthlessness and loneliness.
[00:28:51] It's this existential void. It really is. Existential is such a powerful word or concept, because when people go through an existential crisis, they truly get to this. What's the point? And that is where. And some of the other stuff that I found that Ross has published, people get to this pathological loneliness and they often say, I'm not, I don't get me wrong, I'm not suicidal and I know what's coming next. I call it the. But I wouldn't mind getting hit by a meteor theory where but if I walk out of the office today, if I walk out of your office, I mean, a meteor hits me. I'd be okay with that. And that breaks my heart because that is your own brain, your own heart, your own soul saying I don't want to go through this anymore and I don't know how to get out of it. So then up next on the pyramid is then the self love deficit disorder. He says addiction, it's loneliness and ache and withdrawal and it subsides with your drug of choice, narcissistic love. And then at the top of that pyramid, sld self love deficit disorder, selfless compulsive caretaker who habitually attempts to control others into loving them. That sounds harsh. It sounds very direct, but it's the selfless. Remember, pathological kindness. Selfless, compulsive. Caretaker, compulsive. So compulsive. I'm continually thinking of what do I need to do for others? Who habitually attempts to control others into loving them.
[00:30:11] Control sounds harsh, but the control is that I don't know how to find myself. I don't know how to put myself first. Self care is a challenge, so I am just going to help others. I'm going to be pathologically kind and selfless so that others will hopefully love me. But when that doesn't happen, we go right to that core shame. What's wrong with me? So what is the remedy? He says that it is absolutely the opposite, which on the self love abundance pyramid. At the bottom of that he says attachment trauma resolution healing. Resolving Attachment Trauma Integration of trauma child the foundation for self love, self care, self respect. Next up core self love, realistic and empowered definition of self. I am lovable because I am. I don't have to work on being loved. I shouldn't have to beg someone to love me if they don't love me. Well, bless their heart. Good luck because I'm a good person. And again, I wish it was just that easy. But it is the right tool and it is the right concept to start getting in, in mind, having in mind. Next up from core self love, existential peace, which is the comfortable in our own skin, the freedom to live as an imperfect but worthy and lovable person just going through life. I'm doing my thing. You are an autonomous, interdependent, amazing, wonderful person, going through life for the very first time.
[00:31:34] And you should not have to beg for love if your parents didn't give you the love that they that you deserved. That is not on you. You were a kid. You and again, they had all their stuff going on. And as a kid, we don't understand that. Is it fair? Absolutely not. Did they do as good as they could? I don't know. Maybe. But the bottom line is that you deserved to be loved unconditionally. You deserved a secure attachment to know that you could go out and fail and then come back to your home base and just have your parents say, oh, my gosh, tell me more. I don't think my son would ever listen to the podcast, but the other day he's 18, he's the coolest kid in the world. And he tells us, Hey, I left the stove on and I came back after a couple of hours. It was on. And it was so interesting because of course, I still wanted to say, are you what? What did you do? But he did not try to leave the stove on. And I thought there is the ultimate insecure attachment he knew he could tell us. And then he said, Man, I'll tell you what, that'll never happen again. And I said, I bet it won't. And I didn't say, Yeah, you better do the other things because no, he, he knew that he could in essence, fail or do something wrong and then say, check this out, this is what I did.
[00:32:49] And then we were able to look at it with curiosity. There was zero need to shame him and tell him, Do you know that you could have burned the house down? Yeah, but if he would. If he had to feel like he couldn't even express that now all of a sudden he's carrying around this. Jeez, I feel like crap because I left the stove on for a little while, and if my parents found out, then they're going to. They're going to hate me. So I better not ever let them find out. And then, heaven forbid, if I don't know, I don't even know what I would do. But if I come home later and still warm and I say, Hey, anybody leave the stove on today? He's like, No, not me. Now we're literally getting into the world of so that I am lovable because I am. I don't have to work on being loved up from that core self love is existential peace. That is again we just talked about that comfortable in your own skin. Freedom to live as an imperfect but worthy and lovable person. Right above that is is mutual reciprocal relationships. How would that be? Mutual reciprocal relationship, self love and self respect and self care that then engenders the same from others. If I show up loving myself and not having to beg for love and not having to try to do things just to please others, then I am going to I'm going to want to be with someone that also is loves themself and shows themselves self respect and self care because now we're too emotionally healthy, mature people coming into a relationship with curiosity.
[00:34:07] So that leads to the top of this pyramid self love, abundance, serenity and acceptance about one's place in the world. You are absolutely okay. You're just doing this for the first time and and you're going to be okay. And the quickest way to become okay can feel so scary because it is breaking this codependent attachment traumatic bond. It really is. And I think we'll wrap it up right here. I'm going to put the self love recovery website in the notes. And the reason that felt a bit like an awkward pause because it absolutely was because he goes from here after these pyramids, the self love deficit disorder pyramid and the self love abundance pyramid. And to some amazing things about these self love deficit disorder categories, he talks about these different types of codependency, passive codependence, active coded, cerebral, codependent, oblivious, codependent, anorexic, codependent. So we'll hit on those maybe in a future episode, but I just am grateful that you're here. Thank you. So much. And I hope that you are I hope you resonate with this that self love deficit disorder codependency is just a piece of that pyramid. And at the bottom of that is that attachment trauma.
[00:35:20] Then it works up to core shame, pathological loneliness, and then the self love deficit disorder addiction that it's like a drug, you get your withdrawals and then it subsides with your drug of choice, which is that narcissistic love. But that leads to selfless compulsive caretaker who eventually attempts to control others into loving them. And we want to flip that thing and get to the exact opposite. The self love abundance pyramid that at the bottom is is attachment trauma resolution that you understand that this is just what happened in your childhood. It is. It just was modeled or it wasn't modeled. And so, of course, this is how you're showing up. So then core self love. I'm lovable because I am I'm the I'm me. I'm just doing this. I'm trying to figure this out because you're healing is just going to be a process of doing and being and becoming, which then leads up to this next rung existential peace, freedom to live as an imperfect but worthy and lovable person, which then works its way up to mutual, reciprocal relationships, self love, self respect and self care that then will draw that from others as well. And then self love, abundance, serenity and acceptance about one's place in the world. Because you are uniquely you. If you are if you are a religious person, you are the child of God, the only one ever made with your own talents and abilities.
[00:36:36] If you are not, you are still the most unique version of you with your own chromosomal DNA, your nature, nurture, birth order, abandonment, DNA, rejection, hopes, dreams, fears. All of that is just a bundle. One of the authors that I really burden on his book on being certain your 3 billion neurons that are walking around making decisions. And as we talked about at the very beginning, the one Hunter Thompson letter that in every day when you're making decisions, in essence makes you a new person. So how on earth can someone else tell you you need to do this? They don't know what your situation is. You need to learn how to self love and then put yourself out there into the world so you can let your light so shine that you will lift others around you. Okay, have an amazing week. Send me your questions, your emails. If you're interested in joining the women's Facebook group, please by all means, hit the contact form on my website. Tony eBay.com. You can go check out the Tony Bacon slash workshop if you want to hear more about what a healthy relationship can look like that we don't really know until we know. And then, boy, is the world's worst and promoter. Then you can also go to Betterhelp.com slash virtual couch. If you're looking to the world of online therapy and you'll get 10% off your first services and then what's what's my beak a little bit helps me pay for some production costs, that sort of thing. All right. Have an amazing week. I will see you next time on Waking up to Narcissism.