Tony shows how putting the 4 Pillars of a Connected Conversation, one of the key components of his Magnetic Marriage Course (http://tonyoverbay.com/magnetic) together with your abandonment and attachment programming from childhood can create a pretty incredible conversation, relationship...and birthday! And did you realize that returning Christmas presents could actually be a way to connect?Please subscribe to The Virtual Couch YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/TheVirtualCouchPodcast/ and follow The Virtual Couch on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/virtualcouch/
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[00:00:00] So did you know that you can actually return Christmas presents? Let me set the stage. It's a couple of months before Christmas 2020 and I really wanted to get my wife something good, something that I think that she has always wanted a Mrs Pacman game. Now, my wife, Wendy, is not a big gamer. We've been married 30 years. We did play some Mario games early in our marriage. And I remember coming home from classes in college. We were newlyweds. This would have been in nineteen ninety or nineteen ninety one and we were playing one of the Mario games, probably on the original Nintendo. I don't really remember the exact console. She was working to put me through school and sometimes we would have just a few minutes between me getting home from school and her heading off to manage a women's clothing store in the mall. So we check in, see how far one of us got on Mario and pass along any tips or tricks that we thought the other might need to know that because we were starting to head our separate ways and I continued, as many males do, to really enjoy playing video games. But as the consoles became more complex, the game's more intense. Wendy didn't seem as excited about gaming over the years and having a shared experience around a video game all but disappeared.
[00:01:04] That is, except when we found ourselves maybe playing tennis later on in life or even today or Mario Kart. But that's not the point of the intro when we're out and about. Wendy has been known to routinely defeat me on a game called Mrs Pacman. Like to the point of frustration, I don't understand why I cannot beat her in this game. Mrs Pacman, regular Pacman. I've got a chance at Mrs Pacman. I don't know. She holds some power over me. So when I started seeing in the stand up arcade games go on sale for just a fraction of what their coin operated ancestors went for. I knew I had to buy her one. I knew that she wanted one. I assume she wanted one. So I had chased a few down over the years, but I had never pulled the trigger. But this year I started looking early. I made a purchase and the game arrived a few weeks early and I could not wait to unveil it on Christmas. I think I'd already told all my kids, probably clients, anybody that would listen except for Wendy, that she was going to be thrilled with the Mrs Pacman game at Christmas. So fast forward to December. Twenty fourth. Our kids are older, so there wasn't really much to set up for the big day.
[00:02:06] But the night before, sure enough, as was the case in so many houses across the world, the kids could open one gift and surprise it was pajamas. And they typically come with some sort of slipper house slipper and I have some house shoes that I already like. So Wendy said that I need to keep the ones that she bought. And I said, Are you sure that won't hurt your feelings? And she said, no. And she set them aside and was all set to return them. No big deal. So is everybody got the PJs on? We took a family picture, too, and then she said, hey, so speaking of returns, I noticed the big box out in the garage. I noticed it's a Mrs Pacman game, and that's so nice. But would you be offended if I wanted to return that? That one hurt, that one stung a bit, didn't she know that I've been trying to track this thing down for years? I had spent probably hours trying to find a Mrs Pacman game and finally finding one and pulling the trigger. And it came and she realized she was going to be able to beat me routinely and talk trash and rub it in my face, all the things that were fun and and this competition. And then I realized I had to practice what I preach as if as a marriage and family therapist, as a as a creator of the magnetic marriage course.
[00:03:13] Of course, for better marriage communication. A few weeks ago, I put out an episode about the four pillars of a connected conversation. We're all human. We have our own experiences that we bring to the table. And the goal of a connected marriage is to be heard, not to be right, not to necessarily have to resolve anything, but really is to be heard. So I had to mentally bust out my own four pillars of a connected conversation. Pillar one, assume good intentions. Nobody wakes up and thinks, you know, I want to hurt my partner. You don't have to get defensive, go into your emotional bunker or to protect yourself, even if you have a hard time believing that the that there are good intentions behind a message that your spouse is giving you. So when my wife said, I don't really think I would like Mrs. Pakman Pillar, no one assume good intentions. She's not trying to hurt me. Pillar number two, I cannot send the message you're wrong. So when she says that she wasn't really excited about Mrs. Pakman, as I probably thought, I can't say no, no, no. You always beat me. You like it? I couldn't put across that message.
[00:04:11] Pillar three ask questions. So I had to say, hey, tell me more about that kind of fill me in, bring me up to speed. And she let me know that that really wasn't something that she was necessarily excited about. If we were going to buy a big console or arcade game for the game room, said something that the kids would like, my youngest son is still in the home. Maybe he saw some antique NBA jam or one of those kind of games. So she said, I'm happy to return mine and we get something that the kids would want to play. And number four, pillar four. I can't go into my bunker. I have to stay present. I have to lean into the conversation. I can't say fine. I guess I'll never try to buy you a gift again, as so often is the case. So not not often necessarily the case that I do. But I think we all do that where we get our feelings hurt. We say, fine, I was just trying to do something nice, but I guess it doesn't matter. Know, I had to lean in and tell her I appreciate that I was then able to share with her my train of thought where I was coming from. I felt heard. She felt heard. And it was time to return the game now a day or two past.
[00:05:14] And when he started the return process, only to find out that in my naivety I saw that there was a return policy from where I purchased the game, but I didn't read it. So we were responsible for the return shipping of this incredibly heavy, large device and a restocking fee. So I believe that I have actually actually cost us money to return the game. So, yeah, if you're ever in our neck of the woods and you're hankering for some Mrs Pacman, well, we're the place to go. So today I'm going to lay out a couple of real world scenarios with the four pillars of a connected conversation. I have received an insane amount of emails after releasing this episode about the four pillars of a connected conversation. So many that people are saying that even just the concept of four pillars of knowing that there is a better way to communicate has been a game changer, no pun intended. So today we're going to take a look at what that looks like to put these four pillars into action, how difficult it can be to have a goal of being heard instead of trying to resolve. So we're going to cover that and so much more coming up on today's episode, the original.
[00:06:25] Episode two hundred and forty seven of the virtual couch, I am your host, Tony Overbay, I'm a licensed marriage family therapist, a certified mycoplasma coach, writer, speaker, husband, father for ultramarathon runner and creator of the Path Back and online pornography recovery program that is helping people stop turning to pornography as a coping mechanism. It is a strength based on the shame, become the person you always wanted to be program. And if you head over to Pathbackrecovery.com, where you go over to Tony Overbay dot com, you can find a link to go to my courses.
[00:06:52] You will have access to download a book, a little e-book, five myths that people make with trying to put pornography behind them once and for all. Again, that's Pathbackrecovery.com and the new the revamped Pathbackrecovery.com program features a weekly group call Wednesday evenings and has been an incredible thing as it continues to grow. There is quite a community and it is a strength based model. I am telling you, if you have tried to to stop turn into porn when you're feeling hungry, angry, lonely, tired, when you're feeling less than if that has been something that's been deeply rooted into your neural pathways for a long time. Give this a shot. I'm telling you, the strength based model is is the way to go. And I when I was promoting my book, he's a porn addict now. What an expert and a former addict. Answer all your questions. I think at that time I was done the math and I was letting people know about fifteen hundred sixteen hundred individuals and working with them one on one and helping them put pornography behind them as a coping mechanism. And I am over fifteen hundred are over sixteen hundred and having shame be a component of recovery. So give it a shot and let's get to this. The magnetic marriage course. I mentioned this last week, it sold out in just a few hours and I was incredibly humbly grateful for the support.
[00:08:09] And one of the biggest components of the magnetic marriage course is these four pillars of a connected conversation. And these are based off of the emotionally focused therapy model by Sue Johnson. EFT., as I've mentioned so many times on my podcast has been an absolute game changer. I would not be a couples therapist had I not learned the skills and tools of emotionally focused therapy. But then with the help of my friend Preston Pugmeier, we took these principles and then put them in very tangible homework situations where you can apply these four pillars and a lot of other things in this magnetic marriage course and to be able to communicate more effectively, to be able to have a more magnetic marriage. So I've gotten a lot of emails and people have wanted to know more about what this looks like out in the wild. So I had a couple of things today. And one of them, the first thing I want to open up with is the story of the birthday party. And I really feel like this was going to resonate. When I talk about receiving emails, I still feel very fortunate and blessed that I get a lot of emails about podcast episodes and the particularly around Christmas, I received a handful of emails around. It was primarily women who felt a bit underappreciated that they had put themselves out there a lot with Christmas preparation, Christmas planning, and maybe had not felt as appreciated.
[00:09:29] And even to the point where Saturday Night Live had a really funny skit, I have to put the link in my show notes. That was about how much Mom does for Christmas. And then she I think it says she gets a robe. But then the kids have all these amazing things. Even the dog got a bunch of things and mom is forgotten, even though she's the orchestrator of all things Christmas. And so a lot of times people can feel an unappreciated. So I want to lay out the here's the first scenario where I want to put the four pillars of a connected conversation into play. But why I love this example is because this one also speaks to something that I have been so passionate about the last few weeks, and that is the concepts of what abandonment and attachment issues look like moving forward in your life as an adult. So forgive me, but I am going to lay out the speech now that I feel like I give anyone and everyone almost on a daily basis. I swear my one on one counseling, my one on one therapy. When somebody says, hey, so what's what's on tap? What we can talk about today, I say, let me give you the abandonment attachment speech. And because that will frame a lot of the things that we're going to talk about.
[00:10:30] And if somebody stops me the store and says we're going to help you, I can say, have you heard about how your abandonment and attachment issues affect you and your adult life? This is how passionate I am about this. So let me go as I'm sitting up in my chair. Matter of fact, if you haven't done so yet, I would be very honored if you would go find the virtual couch YouTube channel and subscribe and I just to get out of my chair because I'm ready to give the speech. Here we go. So we are born as little pink, squishy babies from the factory. We are programed to cry, to emote, to express our needs. Because if we do not express our needs, if someone doesn't feed us, clean us, hold us, then we will die. So in our wiring of our brain is this concept of abandonment equals death. Now, if we go into the stages of development, psychologists like to talk about them. If we're going into this, maybe. Zero to two years old, and you can see that factory setting baby emotes. Baby cries and then their needs are met and needs are met because if needs are not met, that is abandonment and abandonment equals death. So let's move into the next stage of life. Next stage of development, a two to seven years old.
[00:11:42] This is where I start to say welcome to the world of abandonment. Sounds dramatic, but what is abandonment look like at that point? Abandonment looks, hey, you can't stay up past your bedtime, can't have candy before dinner. We're not going to go to Disneyland every weekend. You can't have that toy that you see on TV. And so that looks like abandonment. And why I love talking about this now so much is we're looking at this moving forward. So from zero to two with the wiring set of abandonment equals death. Now, when we move into two to seven now, we can see that for a kid brain, we're moving through the stages of development. So as we come from zero to two with abandonment equals death and then we get into two to seven and now everything starts to feel like abandonment, because now for a kid, I am now emoting better emoting a lot better. I can actually use these words that I one moment will get praise for. And the next minute I'm saying Candy before dinner, please. And on that one, people say nobody, no candy before dinner. So all of a sudden, just wait a minute. I don't understand. When I emote, then my needs get met. So what this two to seven year old doesn't realize or even seven to 12 or those kind of in fact, some adults, is that when you're in that two to seven year old kid brain, every kid is a little narcissist, they're egocentric.
[00:12:59] They think the world revolves around them because it has it literally has revolved around them. And they don't have a way to express themselves. They have a way to self advocate. And then they also don't have empathy, no judgment there. But you don't have empathy if the world is revolved around you so deep. Right. So then from this two to seven, welcome to the world of abandonment. All of a sudden, the kids are thinking, I don't understand why people are not meeting my needs. It doesn't make any sense. So here's where I then like to say there's two tracks if you're watching on the video. I got my hands going crazy here. I talk about the abandonment track. What does that look like? So now? Slowly but surely, people then throughout my life are going to start not meeting my needs. We're talking about through childhood, throughout adolescence, as a kid, my friends, people that I date, then eventually my spouse, people at work, why are people not doing what I need them to do? And even as adults, even though we know, OK, everybody is at their own lives to get their own stuff, why does it still hurt us when people aren't doing the things we want? It's because of this wiring from the brain zero to two. Abandonment equals death. When I emote, people meet my needs. So what that abandonment track starts to look like is this concept of if people aren't meeting my needs, it's got to be me.
[00:14:11] So I must be unlovable, I must be broken. There's got to be something I can do to get people to meet my needs, because, again, we're moving forward from childhood with this thought of the people jump when I ask as a baby. And so I just don't understand this. Now there's the abandonment. And that's where I'd like to say if you jump into any of my podcast, go search for a virtual couch and acceptance and commitment therapy, because this is where I say, no, you are not broken, you're not unlovable, you're human. You've got all the experiences that have led you up to that moment. And so, of course, it's going to feel frustrating. But we're coming at this adult life, often bringing forth our childhood coping mechanisms and our childhood solutions, problem solving skills. But now we bring them into adulthood. We wonder why we aren't getting our needs met. So that abandonment track, again, we feel like it must be us. And here's what this can look like as an adult. It can look like, OK, my wife isn't meeting my needs, it's got to be me. So maybe if I can get the six pack abs, maybe I can start making a six figure salary. Maybe we can get a cooler house. I don't know if I can wear nicer clothes, then she'll dig me.
[00:15:15] Then my needs will be met. So do you see where that's coming? It's coming still from this childhood abandonment track. Now, over on the other track, we've got attachment. What does that look like? This one makes so much sense now to me is the more I study this abandonment and attachment patterns. So for there, if abandonment equals death coming forward from this zero to two year old, then from that day forward, here's where we see and this kid has got to figure out how to get their needs met. How do they show up? How do they maneuver certain situations so that people will like them? Because if people like them, then they will meet their needs. The people like them, they won't put them out of the tribe. They won't leave them out on their own. And this is this preprogramed evolutionary biology piece of the brain that says, if I am not a part of the tribe, if I am booted out of the tribe, then some saber tooth tiger is going to devour me. So I've got to do what's right to not be abandoned because remember, abandonment equals death. So in this attachment track, how do I show up and I get more attention if I'm the smart kid? Well, I get more attention. If I'm the peacemaker, I'll get more attention. If I'm the quiet one will get more attention. Actually, if I am the scholar, the athlete, or what if I'm the rebel and I feel.
[00:16:22] And I have to. Be really vulnerable therapists, vulnerable, raw, authentic, those sort of things. I know that the therapist in me knows the right thing to say at times where you say we all crave attention via positive or negative. And I can come up with slight examples as an adult where I come home, nobody's really paying attention to me and I pick things out of a pan that my wife's cooking on, or maybe even spanker a bottom a little bit in a playful way. And all sudden she reacts, which is what? And I say, OK, I guess I just want attention. And I used to think there is positive or negative attention, but where does that originate? Go back to this. Abandonment equals death. If I am the rebellious kid or the rebellious teenager, and that's the only way that my parents react, that reaction, even though it's negative, means they they recognize me, they notice me, and that means I am not abandoned because abandonment equals death. That was all just a warm up to talk about this scenario. Now we go to the scenario of the birthday party, and this one is so common I will often get emails or process in a session where let's just take in the scenario. It's a wife who says, my husband didn't do anything for my birthday. They forgot my birthday.
[00:17:31] Maybe it's been again. And so that hurts. That can hurt a spouse. And I understand that. And this is the part where because of we all have our own private experiences, all of our nature and nurture, birth, order, DNA, abandonment, rejection, all the things that make us human. So if we feel hurt or we feel let down because our husband forgot her birthday and maybe forgot her birthday again, it's going to hurt. We're human. There's nothing wrong. But we can't just not just choose to not have it hurt. That's that doesn't always work. And it does. That's great. But again, we're human beings, but here's where things get interesting. So first we can apply these four pillars of a connected conversation. That would be the first thing that I recommend. And I process many of these conversations with couples in session. So if the wife says, hey, it hurt my feelings that you forgot my birthday, then often the husband will immediately go into defense mode. Well, you forget things, too. Or you know what? You're not very appreciative of the things I do. And so we can already see that conversation is going nowhere. And that typically is the pattern that couples fall into. That's the tit for tat. There's also pursue withdrawal where then the wife may get very aggressive and say, I cannot believe that you forgot my birthday again. And I said, well, this retreat withdrawal, don't say a word because soon it'll be over, hunker down in my bunker or then there's again, there's these unhealthy patterns of negative communication.
[00:18:51] So put this birthday scenario through the four pillars of a connected conversation. The wife is hurt, but then if she goes to her husband and says, OK, I have to assume good intentions, I have to assume that he did not wake up and think, oh, it's her birthday. I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to forget it or I'm going to show her that I won't pretend I'm forgetting it is that will show her we have to remove the concept of assuming bad intentions, even if you don't necessarily believe that's the case. That's why the word assume is they're assuming good intentions, because it is. If you want to just go ahead and say no, I think that you are trying to hurt me. That conversation is done and we already know what that conversation is going to look like. For many couples, that's the way that they communicate. Then they argue and they fight. Then it goes a couple of days, things get a little bit calmer and then they don't know how to address the topic that just the thing that just happened and they move forward. And that's not the way to grow closer. That's why the paradigm shift, the goal is to be heard, not to resolve. So here we go. So if she assumes good intentions, he didn't mean to hurt me.
[00:19:52] And then if he said, OK, I, I forgot or if he says, I just really feel like you really don't care what I do, it doesn't matter. It's never enough. She can't put this vibe across. Don't send the message pillar number two that I don't believe you are. You're wrong again. Even if she in her mind feels like I don't believe what he's saying right there. Number three, it's pillar three. Ask questions before making comments. So your job for both partners is to listen and ask questions because remember the goal, the connected conversation is to be heard, not to resolve. And this will feel let me I will go big honest. It will feel counterintuitive at first, but this is a big trust the process concept. This is an opportunity for you to explore and learn about your spouse, what makes them tick, how do they arrive at their conclusions? This is where you'll go. You'll learn how to go on their train of thought. So I'm going to ask questions. Hey, tell me about forgetting my birthday. And this is one way of you get this these four pillars down and you start to feel safe and emotionally vulnerable. You're still allowed to have your emotions and feelings. You can be frustrated, you can be hurt. But know that if you bring that to your partner, then when we're on this pillar three.
[00:20:55] So I've assumed good intentions. He didn't forget on purpose or to try to hurt me. I can't tell him. I don't believe what you're telling me. And I need to ask questions and say, hey, tell me about that. What was this morning like? Did you remember a few days ago? You tell me about that. And here's where. If the guy really does say, I don't know, I don't know why I do that, I just get so caught up in things or if it's a I, I put it on my calendar, then I forgot to get you something. I feel shame and embarrassment. I want I go to the office and I feel I got to find a gift. You fast, because I can't acknowledge it if I don't have anything for you, even if you feel like that's not true, but if that's his experience, then OK, hey, I appreciate you sharing that. And then pillar number four, stay present. Lean in. This is the wife delivering this. She if she's the the listener right now, then she may want to say, you know, it doesn't matter. I guess am apparently I don't matter enough, so don't even worry about it. No, because at that point you can do the first three pillars of assuming good intentions, not sending the message if you're wrong or I don't believe you asking questions before making comments and have that all go wonderfully and then forget to do the fourth pillar and go into this victim mode of it doesn't I guess I don't matter.
[00:22:04] Don't worry. I don't ever you don't need to do anything again because at that point you as when one falls into kind of that victim mode, what they're saying is, OK, come rescue me. I'm obviously not worth your attention. I'm a bad person, so come rescue me. So stay for a killer for stay present. Lean in. Even if it's the. Hey, I appreciate you sharing that again. You're allowed to have your emotions and now you become speaker and he becomes listener. So for you now it's the roles are reversed in a very positive way. Now I'm going to help him assume good intentions. So when you say that hurt my feelings, you are not trying to hurt him. You are expressing your feelings. That hurt my feelings. I feel like I do a lot for the family, but yet I feel like people don't they don't care, now he can't jump into he has to stay in pillar two. He can't say that's ridiculous or I don't believe you, because if he does, that's going to shut the conversation down as well. Because a lot of times if the wife emotes that she feels like nobody cares or she nobody pays attention or she's not appreciated, he can easily pull a lot of. No, we do. We appreciate you and all the things you do.
[00:23:08] And I'll tell you all these wonderful things that you do. But that's telling her you're wrong, that failure. I don't believe what you're saying. I am not validating your thoughts or opinions or emotions so that Pillar two becomes important to not tell her you're wrong. You're wrong about that. Which then leads into his pillar three of asking questions. Hey, tell me what how you feel about that. And that can be hard. This is where I've been on a guy. So this is really I think that guys have a hard time. They don't know a lot of empathetic statements or questions to ask them in the magnetic marriage course. We've got a whole bunch of those sort of things. Tell me more about that. What's that like? How long have you felt this way? Give me some more examples. Have you felt this way? What was this a pattern in your childhood or tell me more? Not trying to fix, not trying to judge, but just trying to understand, which is, again, a paradigm shift. It's hard. The male brain, when we go super nerdy for two seconds, there's two places where we process emotion in the brain. There's the mirror neurons system, the immense and the temporal parietal junction. TPG and the temporal parietal junction is responsible for cognitive empathy of what do we do about that? The mirror neurons system is responsible for emotional empathy of tell me more about that.
[00:24:18] And when I go speak in front of crowds and I've got men and women present, I often say, you know, that males and females both have the mirror neurons system in the temporal parietal junction. And there's data that shows that a man emotions for men or thoughts for men make a quick pass through this mirror neurons system. But then when they don't feel like the tell me more about that or that emotional empathy is very helpful. They jump right into cognitive empathy of what can I do about it? So men, we are capable of understand sitting present and understanding and listening and and even having this magical empathy that we hear so much about. So in this scenario, then having the person ask questions and then staying present and and I think that's where I was going. That pillar for can be really difficult because when a guy when he's feeling like, wow, no, that isn't true. I do appreciate you. I just I forget I get caught up in things or and notice that this is all absent with the four pillars are amazing. Four is this is absent of the. You don't appreciate me. I don't see you doing much on my birthday. And so in that scenario, staying present, leaning and not going into victim mode, not saying fine, I'm the world's worst husband because that's where a lot of guys go.
[00:25:26] So they want the wife saying, no, no, I appreciate all you do. And and I shouldn't have even brought it up, because after a conversation like this, we both feel hurt. The wife can feel like, OK, I don't feel appreciated. And it would be nice if you did more for around my birthday, remember me. And but then the guy, if he's not being attacked, he doesn't go into that reactive mode, that psychological reactance, that instant negative reaction to being told what to do. And so we're going to walk away from that conversation, not only not arguing, but I think what couples don't even realize when they don't have this model in place is that the absence of not arguing is not or the absence of when you don't argue, it doesn't mean you just didn't argue. It means now you walk away from a conversation, not feeling defensive, not feeling shut down, and you now start to think of, oh, wow, OK, that I didn't realize that or I didn't know that she cared that much about something that she just shared because we're so used to being in fight flight or freeze mode after argument that we walk away saying, I can't believe she said that. Or next to. I'm going to say this or I'll show her I'm going to give her the silent treatment for a while or any of those kind of things. So in this scenario, in in this birthday scenario. Now, I want to go back to abandon an attachment, because those four pillars, I think are a way to have the conversation. But what dawned on me a few days ago while I was processing a session somewhat like this is now.
[00:26:46] Let's go back to even that. Hey, my birthday's coming up in a week. Is anybody going to do anything about it? I'm not going to say anything. Is anybody going to do anything about it? It hit me. That is one of those examples of our childhood abandonment and attachment wounds, coping mechanisms, defense mechanisms coming forth into adulthood. So when we realize that when people aren't meeting our needs, it's not because we're bad, it's not because we're broken. It's not because we're unlovable. It's because we're human. And people we are in this imperfect world with imperfect people and everyone is trying to just do what they feel is the best way to do life. And that attachment piece where it's how do I show up in certain scenarios? Who do I need to be in order to not be abandoned to get my needs met? And so in that scenario, now we're adults. Guess what? You and I'm saying this in a very positive, very empowering strength based way. As an adult, you now get to be in charge of getting your needs met. You now get to be in charge of what you want to happen with your life. You're now an adult. You are our captain of your own ship. I know it's not that easy when you even get these concepts down, but this is where I said to this person, so if you want something done about your birthday, then you get to say, hey, everybody its seven days till mom's birthday.
[00:28:04] You've got to start getting. Yes, I get ready. I there's a big one for me. I want something big happened and I'm going to Hawaii whether you guys are going or not or five days left, please. Someone check a little box on the dry erase marker in the kitchen. A cake has been purchased. If not, I am buying a cake. I will have cake on my birthday or and I feel like that causes us to feel like I but that I shouldn't have to do that or that doesn't feel genuine. And those are these stories our brain is telling us because that is vulnerable. That is scary. Because what if I does that mean that no one loves me? Does that mean that I don't matter? Does that mean that I'm unlovable? No, that's that stuff that you're bringing forth from childhood. Again, it's not that you're unlovable. It's not that you're broken. It's you're human. And so are the people around you. So if you want something to happen, then it's OK to express your needs. And this is where I think that a lot of times we're so worried about expressing that in a very negative or emotionally toxic way that we just stay away from even trying to express our needs or our emotions. I feel like there is if you're looking on the YouTube channel now, I feel like there's this pendulum where we are so almost program for this passivity because we just want to be nice and we just want to be because we feel like if I show up nice, I'm going to get my needs met.
[00:29:19] If I show up nice, then people are going to care about me and they're going to do all the things that that I desire. But at no fault to humans in general, a part of the human experience, the human existence. We can be as nice as we want to be. And that doesn't mean that people are going to say, oh, my gosh, that person is so nice. I want to go meet their needs. As a matter of fact, at times when people are being this, there's a book called Human Magnet Syndrome that says pathological kindness. So people are being pathologically nice or kind, then that can often leave them feeling like something is wrong with them when people don't reciprocate. But often in the process of being pathologically nice or pathologically kind, we almost make it so easy for others that they aren't even aware of the efforts that you put in. They aren't even aware of the efforts of the pathologically kind person. So they don't know how much effort that took.
[00:30:10] And so they often don't reciprocate or even express gratitude for what someone has done. One of these pathologically nice or kind people. My wife legitimately is the nicest person that I know and I often watch her. And I'm not just saying that, but I often watch her put herself out there and just spend hours thinking about others and and she doesn't complain about people aren't meeting her needs. But I often feel like, man, why aren't more people appreciative? Or maybe the kids at times that don't know all that she does behind the scenes, why don't they let her know or express that gratitude? I think at times it's because they don't even know because she does make it look so easy. We if we want those needs met, then we can now ask for those needs to be met. This birthday example, I when I run into a lot with men, if I'm being honest as well, is if let's say the guys love languages, physical touch, and he likes holding his wife's hand, but then he starts to feel like, man, I'm the only one that's reaching out to hold my wife's hand and this has been me. And so then if she's not the one now reaching out and a man, I feel like guys listening to this are going to identify maybe even women if the roles have been reversed, where there were times when I almost feel like in my emotional immaturity where I would think I'll show her, I'm not going to I'm not going to hold her hand for a week and I'll see if she then reaches out and holds my hand.
[00:31:28] Well, she's failing a test. You don't even know she was taken. She could just be cruising on along, having a great time. We're driving somewhere and I'm not holding their hand. I bet she's boy, she's probably upset. No, she didn't know she was even failed that test. But who's upset me? If I want to hold her hand, I can reach out and hold her hand. That's what getting our own needs met. That's what it looks like. It's not this toxic. I will demand my needs met and say, hey, I matter enough. I'm human. I'm an adult. I am no longer going to use these childhood coping mechanisms in childhood defense mechanisms in my adulthood. If I want to hold her hand, I hold her hand and I'll do it with kindness and confidence and gentleness and love. So I just wanted to take you through that scenario. I actually have a part B and I'll hold this one for a future episode of A, and it has to do with another birthday party and a situation where assumptions were not assumed to be good.
[00:32:18] And I am making no sense. I may even edit this part out, but I realize that this this episode is starting to do. I will do a bonus episode coming up in a week or two where I'm going to share another example, a very solid example of putting the four pillars in action. So I wish you the best this week. I hope that that if you have thoughts, questions, comments, examples or these four pillars are starting to work for you, feel free to shoot me an email and let me know at Contact@tonyoverbay.com. And the next round of preston and my magnetic marriage courses is coming. It's going to be in a few weeks. And so if you go to Tony overate, sign up to find out more about that. You'll be the first to learn. When the next window opens, the cart opens and you can get in on this thing or two or three weeks into the current magnetic marriage course. And the group calls of an amazing the modules have been amazing. It's just it's been incredible. And it's founded on these four pillars of a connected conversation. I didn't do my betterhelp.com ad this week.
[00:33:12] I didn't know if anybody still sticking around. But if you are looking for a counselor and you are having a hard time finding one in real life, then head over to Betterhelp.com, slash virtual couch and you can find a therapist that will help you in a variety of ways with anxiety, depression, OCD, even just processing some of the last year of 2020, or maybe even getting you in alignment with some future goals now that hopefully the world starting open back up again. There's a lot that people have gone through over this last year. And so maybe now is the time to reach out, find some help, talk to a therapist. I don't think there's anything negative that can happen from that Betterhelp.com/virtualcouch to ten, ten percent off your first months services. And they have very a really impressive way to fill out some information and be matched up with a counselor in your area. It's a licensed counselor in your state. And you can communicate through video, through text, email, all kinds of things. So if you haven't taken the time to to do some emotional self care, then give Betterhelp.com says Virtual Couch a chance.
[00:34:15] All right. I will see you next time on the virtual.